Joe Rogan Experience #725 - Graham Hancock & Randall Carlson

乔·罗根体验播客第725期：Graham Hancock与Randall Carlson Graham Hancock和Randall Carlson提出了跨学科的地质学、考古学和天文学证据，表明大约12,800年前，一颗解体的大型彗星碎片撞击了地球，引发了新仙女木期。他们论证了灾难性的大洪水如何重创北美并重启人类文明，灭绝了更新世大型动物群，并掩埋了某个先进史前文化的成就。通过对哥贝克力石阵、巴东山和狮身人面像等异常遗址的考察，他们认为体制化学术界存在均变论偏见，忽视了表明极高年代的明确物理标志。最后，他们警告称地球仍处于与金牛座流星群的持续宇宙相互作用中，强调迫切需要建立行星防御机制并实现文化觉醒。 Graham Hancock与Randall Carlson综合了支持新仙女木撞击假说的同行评议研究，展示了纳米钻石、熔融玻璃以及可追溯至12,800年前的同步黑层等物理证据。 (10:07) 整个太平洋西北地区的地质现场证据，包括卡马斯草原的巨型水流波纹以及文纳奇附近的巨型漂砾，表明灾难性的融冰洪水流量曾达到每秒数亿立方英尺。 (5:17) 哥贝克力石阵和巴东山等巨石遗址展现了复杂的天文对齐、先进的工程技术以及可能更早的起源，从根本上挑战了标准的人类文明狩猎采集编年史。 (17:41) 演讲者警告称，地球每年仍两次穿过碎片密集的金牛座流星群，呼吁将全球防御资源从战争转移到针对小行星和彗星的行星防御上。 (45:33)

Author Graham Hancock and geological researcher Randall Carlson contend that a catastrophic comet impact roughly 12,800 years ago devastated Earth, wiped out advanced prehistoric societies, and reset human development—a history they argue mainstream academia ignores. Cosmic Impacts and North American Megafloods (33:45) Carlson and Hancock point to peer-reviewed geological research since 2007 indicating that fragments from a massive comet struck the North American ice sheet around 12,800 years ago. This Younger Dryas impact event deposited global stratigraphic proxies, including nanodiamonds, carbon spherules, charcoal from continent-wide wildfires, and nuclear-grade melt glass. A July 2015 study in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS) analyzed these proxies, describing an isochron occurring effectively in an afternoon rather than across centuries. The thermal blast generated massive meltwater discharges across North America, carving the Pacific Northwest Channeled Scablands and sweeping glacial erratics hundreds of miles downstream. The researchers reject the academic overkill hypothesis—which blames Paleo-Indian spear-hunters for exterminating 10 million woolly mammoths and 120 other megafaunal species—arguing that catastrophic thermal radiation, floods, and impact trauma caused the sudden extinction of roughly 70 to 75 percent of North American mammal species over 100 pounds. Archaeological Anomalies Redating Civilization's Origins (20:12) Hancock argues that orthodox human chronology mistakenly builds on a wiped-clean slate following this global disruption. Megalithic architecture provides critical anomalies, starting with Göbekli Tepe in southeastern Turkey, dating to 11,600 years ago—the precise terminus of the Younger Dryas. The site features intricate pillar reliefs and coincided with the sudden dispersal of agriculture, directly contradicting traditional models of gradual evolution from primitive hunter-gatherers. Similarly, geologist Robert Schoch and John Anthony West identified deep precipitation erosion on the Great Sphinx of Giza, indicating construction during a rainy prehistoric epoch well before Egypt became arid around 5,000 years ago. Additional sites, such as Gunung Padang in Indonesia—where ground-penetrating radar and drill cores reveal human-modified basalt layers descending to 20,000 years before present—and 10 million square miles of coastal land submerged by rising sea levels at the end of the Ice Age, suggest modern archaeology focuses on only the most recent traces of a much deeper, inundated history. Archaeoastronomy and Encoded Ancient Knowledge Systems (74:49) Ancient cultures frequently encoded precise cosmic cycles within monumental alignments and mythic traditions. Precession of the equinoxes, the 25,920-year axial wobble of the Earth, requires tracking a drift of one degree every 72 years. Researchers Giorgio de Santillana and Hertha von Dechend documented in Hamlet's Mill how this precessional mathematics was embedded into worldwide folklore and mythic structures to preserve scientific records across catastrophic epochs. Carlson explains that sky-watchers utilized lunar eclipses to determine constellations positioned directly opposite the sun, tracking long-term shifts in cardinal alignments. Sites like Göbekli Tepe also exhibit universal artistic motifs, such as mysterious handbag-shaped carvings found identically on Olmec stelae in Mexico and Assyrian reliefs in Mesopotamia. Hancock posits that these symbols, alongside entheogens like DMT-rich Acacia nilotica depicted in ancient Egyptian iconography, reflect surviving remnants of an earlier, unified tradition of esoteric and astronomical knowledge. Institutional Resistance and Present-Day Civilizational Vulnerability Hancock and Carlson argue that academic institutions exhibit rigid knowledge filters, clinging to uniformitarian geology and linear archaeology out of intellectual inertia, professional gatekeeping, and fear of biblical cataclysmic overtones. Field pioneers like J Harlen Bretz faced decades of ostracism before their catastrophic flood models were embraced by mainstream peers. This failure to study cyclical disasters carries existential consequences for modern civilization. Earth periodically crosses the Taurid meteor stream, the source of the 1908 Tunguska airburst that flattened 80 million trees across 2,000 square kilometers in Siberia. Carlson highlights that roughly 100,000 Earth-crossing bodies pose potential threats, yet modern society remains dangerously unprepared. Highly specialized and dependent on fragile, short-lived digital media and just-in-time supply chains, contemporary civilization could collapse completely under a comparable disaster, while resilient hunter-gatherers would be best equipped to survive. Hancock and Carlson advocate redirecting public resources toward planetary defense, such as tracking potentially hazardous near-Earth objects. They maintain that overcoming academic dogma regarding past cataclysms is essential to ensure that modern society does not sleepwalk into another cyclical collapse and become a forgotten civilization itself.

作家 Graham Hancock 与地质学者 Randall Carlson 提出，约 12,800 至 11,600 年前发生的新仙女木期彗星撞击与特大洪水毁灭了一个史前先进文明，主流学术界因固守渐进论与学科壁垒而长期忽视或抵制相关地质与考古证据。 新仙女木期撞击与北美特大洪灾的地质证据 (0:01) Hancock 与 Carlson 指出，约 12,800 年前一颗直径可能超过 100 公里的巨型彗星解体进入内太阳系，其碎片撞击北美冰盖，引发了全球性生态灾难与灭绝级事件。研究团队自 2007 年起在同行评审期刊上持续发表论文，在跨大洲的地层中发现了撞击代理指标，包括只有在极端高压高温下才能形成的纳米金刚石、碳微球、类似于核爆三硝基硅石（trinitite）的熔融玻璃，以及广泛的大火积碳黑层。2015 年 7 月发表在《美国国家科学院院刊》（PNAS）的统计分析表明，这一事件发生在同一地质等时面，近乎在“一个下午”内席卷全球。 北美大陆作为这场撞击的风暴中心，其原有生态与人类痕迹遭到严重抹除。Carlson 驳斥了“过度捕杀假说”，认为原始长矛不可能在短时间内消灭北美 70% 至 75% 体重超过 100 磅的哺乳动物及 1000 万头猛犸象。同时，北美冰盖受热融化释放出规模巨大的洪水（流量以斯维尔德鲁普 Sverdrups 衡量），在华盛顿州干瀑布与槽化河痕地留下了高达 50 英尺的巨大水流波痕，并搬运了重达 1.8 万吨的冰筏漂砾。20 世纪初地质学家 J Harlen Bretz 提出这一灾难性洪水理论时曾遭学界严厉排斥，直至 1979 年 96 岁高龄时才获颁彭罗斯奖章，反映了地质学界长期偏向均变论的倾向。 改写文明起源的考古异数与岁差天文学 (20:12) 主流考古学长期认定文明、农业与巨石建筑始于约 5,000 至 5,500 年前的两河流域或埃及。然而土耳其东南部哥贝克力石阵（Göbekli Tepe）的发现打破了这一线性进化模型：该遗址始建于 11,600 年前，拥有数十处精密建造的巨石圆环及数百吨重的雕刻石柱，且与安纳托利亚地区农业的骤然出现高度同步。此外，波士顿大学地质学者 Robert Schoch 证实吉萨大狮身人面像围墙上的深层垂直侵蚀属于降水侵蚀，而埃及气候在过去 5,000 年中极为干旱，表明该雕像的基础建筑可追溯至新仙女木期或更早的强降雨时代；印尼巴东山（Gunung Padang）的地底雷达与岩芯取样也显示其人工建筑地层可能深达 20,000 年前。 两位学者指出，古代遗址的轴线与星空对齐展示了先进的天文观测能力。在《哈姆雷特的石磨》（Hamlet's Mill）中，学者 Giorgio de Santillana 和 Hertha von Dechend 论证了全球神话中普遍隐藏着岁差（Precession of the Equinoxes）周期常数。地球自转轴每 72 年摆动 1 度，完成一个 25,920 年的“大年”（Great Year）周期。古人利用月全食时月球与太阳呈 180 度对立的原理测定黄道背景星座，并将“72”及其倍数编织于口头史诗，以确保天文数学知识在经历毁灭性灾难后仍能跨越万年传承。 被淹没的大陆与符号叙事的全球传承 (52:45) Carlson 计算指出，按每代 25 年计算，解剖学意义上的现代人类经历了约 8,000 代人，而人类从农耕进入工业时代仅用了 5 代，漫长的深史为文明的兴衰留下了巨大空隙。在上一个冰期鼎盛时期，全球海平面比现今低 300 至 400 英尺，当时大部分人类聚集在沿海及低洼河流三角洲。随着冰盖融化，约 1000 万平方英里的土地（相当于欧洲与中国面积的总和）被上升的海水彻底淹没，成为主流考古学尚未充分探索的盲区。 Hancock 指出，全球几乎所有古代文化均保留了大洪水和彗星带来灾祸的创世神话，这反映了灾难幸存者的集体记忆。哥贝克力石阵 43 号柱顶部的浮雕中刻有三个具有拱形提手的“手提包”或小篮子图案，这一奇异的符号形式同样出现在相隔数千里的美索不达米亚阿普卡卢（Apkallu）神祇手中以及墨西哥拉文塔的奥尔梅克羽蛇神浮雕上。Hancock 推测这些神秘提袋可能象征着在大灾难后向各地传播知识与植物仪式的“文明开拓者”群体。 学术机制的知识过滤与现代文明的脆弱性 Hancock 认为主流考古学界建立了一套“知识过滤器”，学者将其学术声誉和终身教职绑定于现存框架，承认灾难模型意味着推翻自身职业生涯所确立的文明起源年表。这种学科惰性导致非常规发现常被轻易贴上“伪考古学”或“气候否认论”等标签以终止理性探讨。然而随着公众对体制权威的无条件信任逐渐瓦解，越来越多的独立探索者开始直接查阅地质学与天文学的原始实证数据。 现代社会对自身稳定性的理解建立在虚假的安全感之上。Carlson 强调，目前已知有约 10 万个潜在威胁地球的近地天体运行在相交轨道上，而 1908 年通古斯大爆炸仅凭一枚约 100 米宽的彗星碎片就夷平了 2,000 平方公里的森林；人类目前仍周期性穿过金牛座流星雨轨道。现代城市高度依赖脆弱的“即时配送”供应链与两三天的食物储备，全人类的知识几乎完全托付给易腐蚀的数字磁盘与电力网络，缺乏实体石构的永久保存手段。一旦遭遇类似于新仙女木期的全球冲击，高度分工的技术文明将在一周内崩溃，而缺乏现代技术但保留野外生存技能的原住民群体反而更可能成为延续人类血脉的幸存者。 本期节目主张将彗星撞击地质学、巨石考古学及古代天文学进行交叉综合，以重构被灾难抹去的史前人类历史；然而这些假说依赖于跨学科证据的拼接，在面临主流考古学界对严谨地层学关联和物质证据的持续质疑时，仍存在如何弥合硬科学数据与推测性历史叙事之间鸿沟的未决课题。

## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=1s) 历史学界的“梦幻联动”与华盛顿州科研之旅 节目开场，Joe Rogan 难掩兴奋之情，直言这是他期待已久的播客对谈，甚至可以说是他个人最喜欢的节目之一。Graham Hancock 与 Randall Carlson 首次在播客中合体，而 Graham 的重磅新作《上帝的魔法师》（*Magicians of the Gods*）也刚于 2015 年 11 月 10 日在全美正式上架。Rogan 提到，自从两人分别上过他的节目后，每周都有四五个人在路上拦住他，追问他们何时能再次回归；当得知两人即将同台时，粉丝们甚至激动到请假并在家举办观看派对。 Graham 透露，为了新书的调研，他和 Randall 一同深入华盛顿州的槽化干谷（Channeled Scablands）进行考察。Randall 在这片土地上实地探勘了数十年，亲自带领 Graham 见证了该地区遭遇特大灾难性洪水的确凿证据。Graham 强调，距今 12,800 年至 11,600 年前发生的一场全球性大灾难，其风暴中心正是北美大陆。当透过 Randall 的地质学视角去审视这片地貌时，任何人都能瞬间顿悟这背后的恐怖规模。正如 Graham 所说：“North America was the epicenter of a global cataclysm between 12,800 and 11,600 years ago and when you see it through Randall's eyes you get it immediately.” - Graham Hancock 新书《上帝的魔法师》（*Magicians of the Gods*）于 2015 年 11 月 10 日全美发售。 - 考察核心区域：华盛顿州槽化干谷（Channeled Scablands），沿古代大冰盖南缘从波特兰一路穿越至双子城（明尼阿波利斯与圣保罗）。 - 核心灾难时间节点：距今 12,800 年至 11,600 年前之间。 --- ### [01:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=105s) 斯维尔德鲁普水流与 18,000 吨的漂砾之谜 Randall 接过话茬，详细阐述了他们沿途所见的大冰盖毁灭性崩解痕迹。整片冰原并非缓慢消融，而是遭遇了极其剧烈、突发性的瞬间融化。奔涌而下的水流规模已非普通陆地河流可比，而是相当于海洋级的大洋洋流。地质学家在描述这种超大规模地表水流时，甚至借用了原本专门计量大西洋暖流等洋流输送量的单位——“斯维尔德鲁普”（Sverdrup，简写作 Sv，以挪威海洋学家哈拉尔·斯维尔德鲁普命名），1 个斯维尔德鲁普代表每秒 100 万立方米的水流量。难以想象的浩瀚水量在极短时间内横扫内陆。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 彗星撞击与特大洪水地质遗迹形成机制 accDescr: 展示距今12800年前彗星撞击冰盖引发特大洪水并形成漂砾与波痕的过程 subgraph Impact["天文事件与冰盖融化"] A["彗星碎片撞击冰原<br/>（距今 12,800 年前）"] --> B["大冰盖瞬间发生灾难性融化"] end subgraph Flood["极端洪流动力机制"] B --> C["海洋级洪流倾泻<br/>（流量以斯维尔德鲁普计算）"] C --> D["卷带巨型冰山、林木与巨石泥沙"] end subgraph Remnants["地表遗存特征"] D --> E["卡马斯草原巨型水流波痕<br/>（波高可达 50 英尺）"] D --> F["韦纳奇山谷 18,000 吨漂砾<br/>（油轮大小冰山搁浅融化沉积）"] end ``` 随后 Graham 列举了极具冲击力的地貌证据：在蒙大拿州的卡马斯草原（Camas Prairie），地面分布着连绵不绝的巨型水流波痕，外形虽然类似海滩上的细小沙纹，但这里的波纹波高竟达 50 英尺（约 15 米），波长数百英尺，完全是超级洪水退去后留下的鬼斧神工。而在华盛顿州韦纳奇（Wenatchee）城镇上方的山谷边缘，孤零零地坐落着一块重达 18,000 吨（约合 3,600 万磅）的巨型外来岩石。这块巨石并非来自本地，而是当年被封冻在一座如同超级油轮般巨大的冰山内部，冰山被洪流推至山坡边缘搁浅；洪水退去、冰山彻底融化后，便将这尊庞然大物永久遗弃在半山腰。不仅如此，整个太平洋西北地区散布着数以千计的同类“冰川漂砾”（glacial erratics）。这一系列现象已获得坚实可靠的放射性碳测年支持，证实均发生在 12,800 年前的冰盖突融事件中。 - 流量计量单位：斯维尔德鲁普（Sverdrup），1 Sv = 1,000,000 立方米/秒。 - 韦纳奇漂砾重量：约 18,000 吨（美吨计算约为 3,600 万磅）。 - 搬运机制：巨型冰川在推进时包裹巨石（漂砾），并在撞击融化后的狂暴洪流中漂运，连根拔起整片原始森林与泥石。 --- ### [05:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=317s) 展现极端水流的分形对比：百年一遇风暴 vs 万年前史前浩劫 为了让大家建立直观的尺度认知，Randall 展示了一组地质对比幻灯片。首先展示的是 2004 年飓风伊万（Hurricane Ivan）横扫佐治亚州后留下的痕迹。那场风暴被称为“百年一遇的特大洪水”，河滩漫水深约 2 英尺。洪水退去一两周后，干涸的泥沙表面形成了典型的波痕，其波长约为 3 英寸，振幅（垂直高度）仅为 3/4 英寸。这种人类经验中罕见的大暴雨遗迹，在几周后就会被风和杂草完全抹平。 紧接着，Randall 切换到第二张卡马斯草原的卫星与航拍图像。在长达 10 英里的牧场平原上，赫然排列着连绵起伏的史前巨型波痕。经测量，这片史前波痕的波长达到了 100 至 300 英尺，波峰高达 50 英尺。Randall 指出，当年要推挤沉积出这种规模的沙砾波痕，奔腾而过的水流深度必须超过 1,000 英尺（约 300 米）。Graham 赞叹这种现象在地质学上展现出的“分形（fractal）”特征——小尺度 2 英尺深的水流能制造几英寸的波纹，而 1,000 英尺深的滔天巨浪则在宏观大地上留下了数十英尺高的山丘状波痕。开车穿行其间若不经点拨往往浑然不觉，可一旦识破真相，其宏大程度足以彻底震撼人类的想象力。 --- ### [07:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=475s) 灭绝级事件与主流历史学“建在沙滩上的地基” 面对如此无可估量的天地剧变，Graham 严肃地指出，这正是地质学上的“灭绝级事件”（Extinction-Level Event，ELE）。这场浩劫不仅重塑了地球表面，更彻底抹除了当时的生物与文明痕迹，如同 6,500 万年前造成恐龙灭绝的宇宙撞击一样。那场撞击终结了恐龙的时代，却给在夹缝中生存的类似鼩鼱的小型哺乳动物腾出了演化空间，最终才有了人类的诞生。灭绝级事件是地球文明时钟的强制“清零”，一切都被迫重启。 Graham 直言，距今 12,800 年至 11,600 年前正是人类文明初现萌芽的关键窗口期，然而主流考古学与历史学界却长期对这场灭绝级灾难视而不见。尽管自 2007 年以来，大量关于彗星撞击与新仙女木期灾变的过硬科学论文已陆续发表在顶尖期刊上，但主流学界仍旧固步自封。谈到主流学派对新证据的顽固抵触时，Graham 尖锐地批评道：“we cannot any longer trust the established model of the origins of civilization since it does not take into account an extinction level event right in the foundations and that's why I say the house of History appears to be built on foundations of sand.” 当 Rogan 询问主流学界是否在排斥这种假说时，Graham 肯定地表示，无论出于学术心理惯性还是更深层的原因，每当有人提出任何形式的灾变论（Cataclysm），都不可避免地会遭遇主流体制强烈的敌意与抵制。 ### [10:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=607s) 彗星撞击假说的学术论战与毁天灭地的能量尺度 Graham Hancock 指出，只要有人提出颠覆主流认知的理论并拿出证据，就必定会遭到批评者的狂怒围剿。自 2007 年以来，一个由 30 多位极具分量的主流科学家组成的研究团队一直在持续提出彗星撞击地球的证据，并在学术界打了一场旷日持久的硬仗。Hancock 在新书《上帝的魔法师》（*Magicians of the Gods*）中详尽记录了这场论辩，并坚信他们已经赢得了这场科学战役，因为他们成功反驳了针对其研究的每一项批评，并以每年三到四篇论文的速度不断发表全新的同行评议数据。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 彗星撞击与新仙女木期气候剧变推导图 accDescr: 展示彗星撞击地球导致新仙女木期降温及后续骤然回暖引发大洪水的机制 subgraph ImpactPhase ["撞击事件（距今约 12,800 年）"] A["彗星碎片撞击北美大陆及冰盖"] --> B["引发全球范围野火与气候崩溃"] end subgraph CoolingPhase ["新仙女木冰期（长达 1,200 年）"] B --> C["全球气温急剧暴跌"] C --> D["北美大型哺乳动物发生大灭绝"] end subgraph WarmingPhase ["第二次突变（距今约 11,600 年）"] E["后续彗星碎片可能坠入深海"] --> F["巨量水蒸气注入高层大气产生温室效应"] D -.-> F F --> G["气温急剧飙升（格陵兰冰芯显示上升10°C）"] G --> H["冰川暴融引发全球超级大洪水"] end ``` Joe Rogan 提到，像地层中发现的熔融核化玻璃（Trinitite 类似物，即撞击代理物之一）等证据正在快速堆积。谈及天体撞击的物理威力，Hancock 回顾了 1994 年苏梅克-列维 9 号彗星（Shoemaker-Levy 9）撞击木星的著名事件。那颗直径仅约 2 公里的小彗星碎裂成大约 20 块碎片撞入木星，所释放出的爆炸能量竟高达 300 吉吨（gigatons，十亿吨 TNT 当量）。相比之下，当前全人类拥有的核武库若在同一瞬间全部引爆，其总当量也仅仅只有大约 6.4 吉吨。Hancock 强调，这些以时速 70,000 英里冲入大气层、宽达一英里的滚烫天体，其破坏力完全超出了人类的想象极限：“数字根本无法表达那种场景，你只能去想象整个世界陷入一片火海，一个被彻底永远改变的世界。” - 彗星撞击地球的速度通常可达每小时 70,000 英里。 - 1994 年苏梅克-列维 9 号彗星撞击木星释放的能量达到 300 吉吨（3000 亿吨 TNT 当量）。 - 全球全部核武器若同时引爆，威力约为 6.4 吉吨，木星撞击能量是全球核武库总和的近 50 倍。 ### [12:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=728s) 新仙女木期的气候两极跳变与文明的“重启” 在厘清灾变发生的时间线时，Graham Hancock 与 Randall Carlson 澄清这并不是一次孤立的事件，而是一个完整的历史阶段。地质学界将这段长达 1,200 年的时期称为“新仙女木期”（Younger Dryas）。该时期始于距今 12,800 年前，以北美为中心的撞击事件引发了全球性的气温骤降和大型动物大灭绝；而到了距今 11,600 年前，气温同样在毫无预警的情况下骤然暴涨，并伴随发生了一系列灾难性的大洪水。Hancock 推测，第一次事件由彗星碎片撞击陆地或冰盖引起，而第二次升温事件则极可能是彗星残余碎片砸入海洋，将海量水蒸气抛射进高层大气，诱发失控的温室效应，从而导致全球冰川急剧融化并形成海啸与洪水。 Randall Carlson 调出了此前展示过的格陵兰冰芯采样数据，指出这两次升温尖峰在地质学证据中表现得极为戏剧化。冰芯记录表明，当时的温度在短短一到两年之内就飙升了约摄氏 10 度（约合华氏 17 至 18 度），其剧烈程度是过去一两个世纪现代全球变暖速度的数倍之多。这一时期正是地球从末次冰期过渡到我们如今身处的全新世温暖间冰期的剧烈转折点。Carlson 指出，现代人类文明的历史基石——无论是语言的扩散、农业的起源、最早城市的建立还是动物的驯化——在考古记录中全都反复指向距今 8,000 至 10,000 年前。正如 Randall Carlson 所言：“在我们这里所描述的这套模型中，我们看到的并不是文明的开端，而是文明在经历了这些浩劫之后的重新启动。” - 新仙女木期时间跨度：距今 12,800 年至 11,600 年前（持续 1,200 年）。 - 格陵兰冰芯数据显示，新仙女木期结束时的升温峰值在短短一两年内达到了约 10°C（17-18°F）。 - 语言扩散、农业驯化、定居城市均在灾难结束后的 8,000 至 10,000 年前密集爆发，呈现文明重建特征。 ### [15:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=905s) 狮身人面像的水侵蚀之谜与正统考古学教条 Joe Rogan 谈及自己读 Hancock 作品的渊源，他自 20 世纪 90 年代末读到《上帝的指纹》（*Fingerprints of the Gods*）起便深陷其中，尤其是 Hancock 提出的核心论点——人类是一个“患有健忘症的物种”，彻底遗忘了自身的真正源头。而如今将 Carlson 对地质灾变、小行星撞击的执着，与 Hancock 对反常古代巨石建筑的洞察结合在一起，就像拼图严丝合缝地拼合在了一起。Rogan 提到了吉萨狮身人面像（Sphinx）围墙上的反常侵蚀：那里的石墙上布满了由数千年长期强降雨冲刷形成的水流侵蚀沟壑，而埃及尼罗河流域最后一次拥有充沛降雨气候的时代，正是在大约公元前 9000 年（即新仙女木期前后）。 Hancock 解释道，埃及的气候在过去大约 5,000 年里一直与今天一样极端干燥，因此若想在狮身人面像上产生这种深度水流侵蚀，地质年代必须追溯到新仙女木期。他向波士顿大学的地质学家 Robert Schoch 和独立学者 John Anthony West 致敬，他们早在 1992 年就通过严格的地质勘探提出了这一颠覆性结论。当时，正统埃及学界对此暴怒不已，坚称狮身人面像确凿建于公元前 2500 年。Hancock 强调自己在《上帝的魔法师》中仔细剖析了埃及学派的主张，发现他们的论断“完全建立在一个童话之上，根本没有任何事实依据支撑”，仅仅是一种先入为主的教条。当时考古学家反驳 Schoch 的核心理由是：如果 12,000 年前存在有能力建造狮身人面像的未知文明，全球各地理应发现其他同年代的巨石建筑，然而当时主流界并未找到任何对应遗迹。 ### [17:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=1061s) 哥贝克力石阵与水下巨石：封存万年的时间胶囊 针对 1992 年考古学界的上述质疑，Hancock 指出如今时代已经彻底改变。位于土耳其东南部、距今 11,500 年前建造并在距今 10,000 多年前被整体掩埋的哥贝克力石阵（Göbekli Tepe）的发现，彻底粉碎了旧有的历史时间轴。“如果你能建造哥贝克力石阵，你就完全有能力建造狮身人面像，”Hancock 说道，人类正在全球各个角落不断发掘出这一失落文明的指纹。例如，考古学家最近在西西里海峡 40 米深的海底发现了一处沉睡了近万年的巨石遗迹，由于其深处水下，其建造年代绝不可能晚于末次冰期海平面上升之前。 哥贝克力石阵最为神秘和震撼之处在于它是一处被人类刻意封存的巨型“时间胶囊”。正因为建造者或后续族群对其进行了彻底的填埋与封闭，外界晚期的有机物无法渗入其中，从而避免了放射性碳测年样本被后期物质污染。探地雷达（GPR）扫描显示，目前已经出土的石阵仅占整个遗迹的约五十分之一，地下仍埋藏着数百根重达 20 至 50 吨的 T 形巨石柱。不仅如此，“Göbekli Tepe”在土耳其语中意为“大肚山”（Potbellied Hill），而覆盖整座石阵的整座山丘竟然全部是由人工回填形成的——无数男女挑着用碎石与泥土填满的石灰石碎块，硬生生人工堆筑起一座山，将整个神圣建筑完整覆盖。正如 Graham Hancock 所指出的：“并没有什么猜测或理论能够真正解释他们究竟为何要这么做，但这就是一个无可争辩的事实。”地质学家与考古学家通过堆积物的物理性质明确断定，这种覆盖绝非自然风化或流水沉积，而是一场工程浩大的史前人工掩埋。 - 哥贝克力石阵的始建年代约为距今 11,500 年前，且至少在 10,000 多年前被人工回填封闭。 - 目前已发掘区域仅占整个遗址的约 2%，地下仍有约 50 倍于现存规模的结构未被挖掘。 - 探地雷达探测到数百根重达 20 至 50 吨的 T 形巨石柱掩埋在地下。 - 西西里海峡（Sicily Channel）水深 40 米处也发现了年代超过 10,000 年的巨石构造。 ### [20:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=1212s) 坚持假说的执念与哥贝克力石阵的惊人发现 Joe Rogan 开玩笑称 Graham Hancock 为此深深着迷甚至有些“疯狂”，Hancock 坦然接受并表示，面对主流学术界排山倒海的指责，没有一点偏执根本无法坚持下来。自二十多年前出版《上帝的指纹》（*Fingerprints of the Gods*）以来，他饱受恶评与攻击，但他深知唯一能做的就是坚持下去，“即使你的观点被我们社会中既定的知识掌握者大声喝止，只要你对此有足够强烈的信念，你就必须坚持下去。”如今，大量全新涌现的地质与考古证据，正在全面印证远古存在失落文明的假说。 这一系列新证据中最震撼的当属位于土耳其的哥贝克力石阵（Göbekli Tepe）。最新发掘出的地基测年结果显示，该遗址的建立时间精确锁定在 11,600 年前。这个时间点非同寻常——它恰恰对应着新仙女木期（Younger Dryas）结束时的第二轮全球性大灾变与大洪水爆发期。针对 Rogan 提出的“石阵是否可能因洪水灾害而被掩埋”的疑问，Hancock 解释说，哥贝克力石阵并非被自然灾害掩埋，而是在灾难结束之后建立并最终被人为有意识封存的。 主流考古学界对这一发现陷入了极大的被动。在此之前，学界一致断言这类具有精确天文对齐功能的天文巨石建筑最多只有 5,000 到 5,500 年的历史；而哥贝克力石阵不仅规模远超目前全球已知的任何巨石遗址，其年代甚至提前了至少 6,000 年。该遗址包含了世界上最早的精准正南正北对齐结构，没有高精度的天文学知识根本无法实现，且施工地点本身缺乏水源，工程组织难度极大。 Hancock 尖锐地批评了主流考古学界的牵强解释。按照传统历史分期，当时的人类不过是追逐猎物的游牧狩猎采集者，根本不具备出现分工专家的复杂社会组织架构。Hancock 讽刺道，考古学家如今编造的神话，仿佛是“一群狩猎采集者某天早晨醒来，不知何故突然获得了神圣的启示，掌握了巨石建筑的完整知识，懂得如何组织劳动力并将他们带到一个没有水源的遗址上完成这一切”。 更巧合的是，正是在 11,600 年前，农业在土耳其全境突然爆发并迅速传播，哥贝克力石阵犹如一个创新的辐射中心。在 Hancock 看来，这绝非原始部落在一天之内突变发明了农业和巨石建筑，而是一场明确的“技术转让”——那些早已掌握高超知识的幸存者来到这片土地，将哥贝克力石阵用作传授技能的大学或启蒙中心，把知识传授给了当地居民。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 哥贝克力石阵与大灾变时间线对齐 accDescr: 展示距今12800年至11600年间彗星撞击、新仙女木期灾变与哥贝克力石阵建成的对应关系。 subgraph Cataclysm["新仙女木期灾变事件"] A["约 12,800 年前<br/>彗星碎块撞击冰盖 / 陆地野火"] --> B["融水脉冲 1A (MWP-1A)<br/>全球海平面剧烈暴涨"] B --> C["千年严寒与环境混乱期<br/>（约 1,200 年的地狱阶段）"] C --> D["约 11,600 年前<br/>融水脉冲 1B (MWP-1B)<br/>气温骤升与二次特大洪水"] end subgraph Transition["知识传承与文明重建"] D --> E["幸存先进人群进行技术转让"] E --> F["哥贝克力石阵落成<br/>（精准天文对齐、巨石建筑）"] E --> G["农业在土耳其全境爆发普及"] end ``` ### [23:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=1411s) 柏拉图的亚特兰蒂斯与融水脉冲 1B 的精确重合 Hancock 指出，11,600 年前这一时间节点还揭示了一个震撼的巧合：这与柏拉图笔下失落文明亚特兰蒂斯（Atlantis）被洪水毁灭沉没的时间分秒不差。长期以来，主流考古学界对亚特兰蒂斯嗤之以鼻，将其贬为伪科学。然而，柏拉图在著作中非常明确地记录，亚特兰蒂斯的沉没发生在梭伦（Solon）生活年代的 9,000 年前；梭伦生活在公元前 600 年左右，两者相加即为公元前 9600 年，折算至今正好就是距今 11,600 年前——恰恰是新仙女木期第二次灾变峰值爆发的时间。 Randall Carlson 随即在演播室屏幕上展示了末次冰期结束时全球海平面上升的科学研究图表。传统学术模型认为海平面上升是一条缓慢平滑的渐进曲线（在图表中以虚线显示），但最新的高精度地质数据却呈现出两次直上直下的极端脉冲峰值： - 第一次脉冲为“融水脉冲 1A”（Meltwater Pulse 1A），发生在大约 14,000 至 13,000 年前之间。 - 第二次脉冲即“融水脉冲 1B”（Meltwater Pulse 1B），其年代被极其精准地锁定在距今 11,600 年前。 看到屏幕上近乎垂直飙升的海平面曲线，Rogan 惊呼这种垂直暴涨必然源自极其极端而剧烈的地质突变。Carlson 证实，这种暴涨正是巨大冰盖遭遇灾难性急剧融化的结果，数以百万立方公里的液态融水在极短时间内狂泻排入大洋盆地。面对整整持续了上千年的灾变地层，Hancock 感叹，人类当时的祖先实实在在地经历了一千年的恐惧与地狱，这对生活在那个时代的人类而言是无法想象的梦魇。 ### [24:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=1487s) 撞击微观指示物与全球神话中的彗星恐慌 Hancock 详细阐释了触发这一千年浩劫的直接物理诱因：以每小时约 70,000 英里（约 11.2 万公里/小时）高速冲入地球的彗星碎片，携带着毁天灭地的巨大动能与超高热量。当它们猛烈砸向地表与冰盖时，在土壤层中留下了极其独特的冲击残留物（Impact Proxies）： - **纳米金刚石（Nanodiamonds）**：由超强冲击波和瞬间极端高压促成，肉眼无法察觉，仅能在显微镜下观测到。 - **碳质微球体（Carbon spherules）**。 - **融化玻璃（Melt glass）**：其物理与化学形态与核武器爆炸产生的“三位一体玻璃”（Trinitite）几乎完全一致。 在全球范围内距今 12,800 年的地质沉积层中，普遍存在着一层富含上述微观物理指示物并夹杂着大陆级森林野火燃烧残留物的黑色垫层（Black Mat）。 这也彻底解开了两个困扰人类的全球性神话之谜： 1. **全球普遍的大洪水传说**：大洪水绝非《圣经》中诺亚方舟故事所独有，而是遍布全球各大洲文明的通用叙事，讲述了一场彻底摧毁曾经的“黄金时代”并重塑现存世界秩序的灾难。 2. **人类对彗星根深蒂固的恐惧**：天空中划过的带尾彗星原本视觉上十分美丽，但世界上几乎所有古老文明的神话传统都将彗星与灭顶灾难紧密绑定。Hancock 指出，这正是因为 12,800 年前彗星撞击的幸存者将惨烈的记忆深深刻入脑海，代代相传至今，这一恐惧根植于极为真实的历史事实。 ### [28:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=1693s) 学术界的认知固化与斯芬克斯风波 针对如此多环环相扣、多学科相互佐证的实证线索，Rogan 感到困惑不解：为何主流科学家和考古学家不对这样划时代的重大发现产生极大兴趣，反而竭力视而不见？ Hancock 一针见血地指出了学术界的机制弊端：“当出现与既定理论相冲突的新信息时，学界的第一反应往往是试图消灭它。”人们倾向于将科学家视为完全理性、客观的群体，但现实却是，当一个人长期深耕于某种假说模型时，其个人价值与自尊心便会与该理论深度捆绑。正如 Hancock 所言：“我认为你会开始把自己的个性与某种特定模型、特定观点绑定在一起，任何对该观点的攻击都会变成对你自身的存在性攻击。”真正的科学发展本应通过修正旧理论来包容解释新事实，但历史上一再上演的却是新事实因为不符合旧框框而遭到无情排斥。 Rogan 随后回忆起自己初次看清这种学术傲慢的时刻。在关于狮身人面像（Sphinx）谜团的纪录片中，地质学家 Robert Schoch 博士与一位在埃及工作的西方主流考古学家会面，探讨斯芬克斯身上的水侵蚀痕迹理论。那位考古学家非但没有进行严谨的学术辩驳，反而当场公开大笑嘲弄，傲慢地质问证据何在。那种充满自负与蔑视的神态令 Rogan 大为震惊，直言这种充斥着 Ego（自我中心）的态度阻碍了人们对 11,000 多年前远古真相的探求。 ### [29:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=1794s) 考古学的意识形态偏见与历史话语权 Joe Rogan 提到，追溯到 11,000 年前的时间尺度，除了石头遗迹之外，很难想象还能留下什么，顶多幸运地找到一些陶器碎片；因此，在已经面对相当坚实证据的情况下依然冷嘲热讽，完全是不合逻辑的。Graham Hancock 接过话头指出，正因如此，他逐渐将现代考古学与历史学视作一种“意识形态”而非真正的科学。现行学术界根植着一种近乎政治正确的文明演进叙事：人类从旧石器时代晚期的狩猎采集者，经历漫长缓慢的渐进发展进入新石器时代，再建立最早的城市、发展技术，最终登顶成为历史的“巅峰”与“顶峰”。这种自鸣得意的傲慢假定一切演化都以现代人类为中心，因而一旦有人提出此前曾存在过一个被全球大灾变彻底摧毁的高度文明，便直接颠覆了这一意识形态支柱，必然引发主流学界的围剿与抹黑。 Graham Hancock 直言，学术体制攻击异见者的惯用伎俩是在同行评审前就全面贬低其声誉：“他们的攻击体系就是首先将你贬低得一文不值，以至于没人会听你的。”考古学家面对他的新书时往往连读都不读，只会不断扣上“伪科学家”的帽子。Joe Rogan 也感慨，主流学者之所以死守阵地，是因为其学术声誉与自尊深度绑定——如果承认新理论，就意味着他们数十年间传授的知识、甚至颁发给学生的硕士学位全都是彻底错误的。Hancock 进一步表示，虽然听起来带有阴谋论色彩，但现存的历史叙事实际上构成了社会“思想控制系统”的一部分： > “我想这是，如果你控制了过去，你实际上也就控制了现在和未来。” 主流学界摆出全知全能的权威姿态，如果承认“我们其实根本不知道过去发生了什么”，那么其指导人类未来走向的权威地位便会随之瓦解。 - 主流历史叙事模型：旧石器时代晚期（狩猎采集） $\rightarrow$ 新石器时代 $\rightarrow$ 第一批城市 $\rightarrow$ 技术爆发 $\rightarrow$ 现代文明（自视为历史巅峰）。 - 异见打压机制：主流学界倾向于给挑战渐进论的学者贴上“伪科学”（pseudoscientist）标签，借此在公众中预先剥夺其发言可信度。 - 查尔顿·赫斯顿（Charlton Heston）曾解说一部关于狮身人面像地质侵蚀年代的里程碑式纪录片，Hancock 当时亦参与其中并公开挑战正统年代学。 --- ### [33:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=2025s) 新仙女木撞击假说对抗“过度捕杀论” Randall Carlson 将话题引向当下的宏观科学与政治语境。他指出，当前存在一股强大的政治与科学议程，试图将人类塑造为全球环境变迁的唯一主导力量，并断言人类正在引发“第六次物种大灭绝”。为了支撑这套叙事，反对新仙女木撞击假说的科学家往往也是极力主张“人类过度捕杀导致更新世巨型动物灭绝”的核心推手。Carlson 痛陈这种观点的荒谬性：当时手持石矛的古印第安猎人绝无可能在 1,000 万头猛犸象繁衍之前将其赶尽杀绝，更不可能同时消灭其他 120 种巨型物种。 事实数据显示，北美洲大约 75% 的巨型哺乳动物（体重超过 100 磅）在极短时间内集体绝迹。根据 2015 年 7 月发表在《美国国家科学院院刊》（PNAS）上的一篇最新统计分析论文，自 2007 年首次提出该假说的科学家团队证实，这一距今 12,800 年的事件是一个地质学上的“等时线”（isochron）事件。它不是一两百年间缓慢累积的结果，而是在极短时间内横扫了地球表面 5,000 万平方公里的区域： > “我们看到的不是持续 100 年或 200 年事件的影响，我们看到的是在大约一个下午之内，跨越地球表面 5000 万平方公里的范围内实际发生的事情。” Joe Rogan 听后直呼“起了一身鸡皮疙瘩”，震撼于全球生态环境竟在一个下午之间被彻底颠覆，并陷入长达一千余年的恶劣浩劫。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 新仙女木期灾难演变与地层记录机制 accDescr: 展示彗星撞击地球、产生超级抛射物并引发全大陆野火，最终在地层中形成黑垫层的完整物理链条。 subgraph Impact["撞击事件 (距今约 12,800 年)"] A["彗星碎块撞击北美冰盖与地表"] --> B["产生巨大热能与超级白热抛射物"] end subgraph Firestorm["大陆级风暴与野火"] B --> C["白热抛射物回落至未冰封的原始森林"] C --> D["北美未冰封区域大面积生物质剧烈燃烧"] end subgraph Stratigraphy["黑垫层 (Black Mat Layer) 地层剖面"] D --> E["上层：全新世地层与现存哺乳动物化石"] E --> F["中间：黑垫层（高浓度富碳烟灰/等时线）"] F --> G["下层：更新世地层与已灭绝巨型哺乳动物化石"] end ``` - 灭绝规模：北美洲体重超过 100 磅（约 45 千克）的巨型哺乳动物（Mega-mammals）有约 75% 迅速灭绝，波及包括猛犸象在内的 120 多个物种。 - 关键论文支持：2015 年 7 月《美国国家科学院院刊》（Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, PNAS），通过对多处遗址的统计分析证实该事件为单一瞬时事件（isochron）。 - 撞击波及范围：至少覆盖地球表面 5,000 万平方公里。 --- ### [36:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=2180s) 黑色垫状层（Black Mat）与全大陆森林野火 随后，Randall Carlson 展示了关键地质证据——位于亚利桑那州南部的默里泉（Murray Springs）克洛维斯（Clovis）文化遗址剖面。克洛维斯文化是北美最早发现人类遗存与灭绝巨型动物共存的考古文化之一，其聚落因彗星灾难而消亡，因此撞击体常被称为“克洛维斯彗星”。在全北美已确认的 50 多个克洛维斯遗址中，大约三分之二的地层中都清晰分布着一层被称为“黑垫层”（black mat layer）的沉积物。该层呈现深黑色，核心成分是极高浓度的碳质烟灰，这正是大陆级森林大火留下的铁证。 Carlson 结合现场图片剖析地层结构：黑垫层之下埋藏着猛犸象等灭绝巨型动物的骨骸，而黑垫层之上则只存在现生（extant）动物骨骼。该黑色条带宛如一道绝对的分水岭，将两个截然不同的生物界彻底隔开。Joe Rogan 形象地比喻这一剖面“就像一块奥利奥饼干，黑白分明”。针对 Joe Rogan 对燃烧体量与持续时间的追问，Carlson 解释道，当时北美明尼苏达州以北覆盖着大陆冰盖，而冰盖以南则是植被极其茂密的古老原始森林。当撞击体猛烈砸入后，产生的极高温度将“超级白热抛射物”（superheated ejecta）炸入高层大气；抛射物如同倾盆火雨回落至整个北美大陆，在极短时间内点燃了北美非冰川覆盖区的大部分生物质，让整个世界陷入烈焰火海。面对如此庞大的时空尺度与数据，Joe Rogan 坦言其震撼程度令人难以在脑海中立刻消化，而 Hancock 正面回应道： > “这正是我写这本书的原因，因为这些材料实在太令人震惊了。” - 核心地质遗址：亚利桑那州南部默里泉（Murray Springs），邻近新墨西哥州克洛维斯（Clovis）遗址。 - 地层标志物特征： - 黑垫层下层：灭绝巨型动物化石（猛犸象、剑齿虎等）与克洛维斯文化石器。 - 黑垫层本体：富含极高浓度的碳素烟灰（Carbon soot），代表大陆级野火的沉降物。 - 黑垫层上层：黄色/浅黄色沉积物，仅包含现存动物（extant mammals）化石，克洛维斯文化遗迹彻底消失。 - 燃烧机制：彗星撞击产生的大量超高温抛射物（superheated ejecta）射入高层大气后大范围回落，引燃了冰盖以南整个北美原始森林的生物质。 ### [39:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=2391s) 新主流科学与更新世巨型动物大灭绝 格雷厄姆·汉考克（Graham Hancock）指出，关于新仙女木期灾难的大量突破性证据长期被封锁在极其小众的科学期刊中，极少进入公众视野。他撰写新书的目的正是将这些研究整合为大众易懂的形式，因为现代世界的格局正是从那一刻演变而来的。当乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）询问主流学界对这片全球性燃烧与破坏证据的解释时，汉考克直言，理查德·费尔斯通（Richard Firestone）、艾伦·韦斯特（Allen West）与詹姆斯·肯尼特（James Kennett）等科学家如今正是他眼中的主流。这群科学家最早提出了新仙女木期撞击假说，尽管最初遭受了学术界恶毒甚至不诚实的围攻，但他们通过不断引入确凿的新数据成功捍卫了立场。汉考克强调，目前只有极少数批评者仍在顽固坚守“人类过度猎杀导致巨型哺乳动物灭绝”的旧学说，并在气候突变面前装聋作哑，但他们已不再代表主流观点。 罗根随即提到了兰德尔·卡尔森（Randall Carlson）此前展示的证据：西伯利亚等地大批猛犸象瞬间死亡，尸骸成片堆积，有的甚至腿骨折断、在强烈冲击下扭曲折叠，这些景象显然无法用人类猎杀来解释。在谈到大灾难中的幸存避难所时，卡尔森解释称，澳大利亚早在约3万年前的另一次灾难中就经历了严重灭绝，而非洲中东部（特别是东非大裂谷一带）则是更新世大灭绝中受创最轻的避难所。 - 非洲保留了其更新世约 90% 的巨型哺乳动物物种，这也是当今非洲大陆大型野生动物最为集中的核心原因。 - 北美洲和南美洲均遭受毁灭性打击，丧失了约 75% 的大型哺乳动物；在冰河时代，北美拥有比今日非洲更多或同等数量的大型兽群。 - 欧亚大陆的巨型动物物种灭绝比例则介于 30% 到 50% 之间。 - 卡尔森指出灭绝与栖息地彻底丧失直接挂钩，而早期古人类化石高度集中的东非大裂谷区域，恰好在一定程度上幸免于全球性的极度灾难。 --- ### [43:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=2586s) 北美：被灾难抹去历史的文明震中 汉考克进一步探讨了传统历史学与考古学叙事中北美的严重缺席。在主流教科书和大学课程中，人类文明的黎明总是被安排在美索不达米亚的苏美尔、古埃及或安第斯山脉的高原文化，北美大陆几乎完全被排除在人类早期文明的画卷之外。考古学界中仍有一股顽固势力坚称，人类只是在约13,000年前才通过白令陆桥首次进入北美，并且此前美洲没有任何人类活动。然而，汉考克认为这一教条早已被铺天盖地的相反证据所击垮，人类早在更古老的时期就通过多种途径定居美洲。 北美之所以在文明起源的叙事中留下巨大空白，是因为它正是12,800年前那场大灾难的绝对核心。大陆冰盖遭受撞击，随后引发超级洪水与地表冲刷，彻底将历史的黑板抹拭一空。汉考克精准地剖析了考古学家的盲区：“他们看到的是一块被擦拭得干干净净的石板，便以为自己看到的是某种事物的开端；事实上他们看到的并非开端，而是一场可怕灾难过后文明残余的艰难迁徙。” --- ### [44:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=2671s) 奥尔特云与百公里级巨型彗星的闯入 面对罗根关于“地球长达千年陷入小行星撞击、烈火与核冬天”这一恐怖景象的感慨，汉考克用精确的天文尺度解释了灾难的物理机制。现代天文研究表明，引发12,800年前浩劫的并非孤立小天体，而是一颗原始直径超过100公里（约62英里）的超级巨型彗星解体后的残骸。相比之下，6500万年前造成恐龙灭绝的撞击体推测直径仅约10公里（约6英里），这颗彗星的原始体积远比恐龙杀手大得多。 汉考克生动地描绘了这些天体从深空深渊进入内太阳系的轨道力学机制： ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 巨型彗星从深空闯入内太阳系的轨道演化机制 accDescr: 展示太阳系在银河系盘面垂直波动如何扰动奥尔特云，并将百公里级巨型彗星送入穿越地球轨道的路径 subgraph GalacticMovement["银河轨道运动"] A["太阳系绕银心公转"] --> B["如海豚跳跃般上下穿透银河盘面"] end subgraph Perturbation["引力扰动与突破"] B --> C["引力扰乱遥远的奥尔特云<br/>（蕴藏数万亿颗稳定冰质彗星）"] C --> D["巨型彗星被抛入内太阳系"] D --> E{"木星巨大引力防护屏障"} end subgraph InnerSystem["内太阳系轨道锁定"] E -->|"偶尔突破木星防线<br/>（约2万年前）"| F["进入近地交会轨道<br/>（原始直径超100公里）"] F --> G["碎裂形成金牛座流星雨群<br/>（每年两度穿越地球轨道）"] end ``` 汉考克将太阳系绕银河系中心的轨道运动比作海豚在海面上的跃起与俯冲：正是这种周期性穿越银河系致密盘面的过程扰乱了外围蕴含数万亿颗彗星的奥尔特云，将巨型彗星抛向内太阳系。木星凭借庞大的引力场充当了地球的“守护神”，吸收或弹开了绝大多数致命威胁，汉考克甚至调侃称“我们每天醒来都该感谢木星”。然而，在约20,000年前，一颗直径达百公里的巨兽突破了木星的防线，被捕获进一条每年与地球轨道两次交叉的内太阳系轨道中。 --- ### [46:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=2806s) 金牛座流星雨与通古斯大爆炸的现实威胁 汉考克警告称，这颗彗星的威胁并未成为历史。该天体碎裂后形成的残骸带被称为“金牛座流星雨流”（Taurid meteor stream），地球至今每年仍需穿越这一残骸带两次——一次在6月底至7月初，另一次在11月。金牛座流星群的宽度达到惊人的3000万公里，而地球以每天约250万公里的速度在轨道上运行，因此每次穿越都需要整整12天时间。在过去的11,000年里，人类之所以能安然无恙，仅仅是因为运气好，穿过的区域大多只有细小的流星碎屑；但观测表明，该流星带深处仍隐藏着密集的巨型岩石残骸，甚至包含直径可能达30公里的潜在灭绝级天体。 为了形容这种极度脆弱的生存现状，汉考克打了一个令人心悸的比方：“我把它比作蒙上双眼去横穿一条六车道高速公路，仅仅寄希望于自己不被卡车撞飞。” 最近一次来自金牛座流星群的确切致命撞击发生在1908年6月底的俄罗斯西伯利亚，即著名的通古斯大爆炸（Tunguska event）。当时一颗来自该流星群、直径仅约100米的小天体闯入大气层，在距地面约5公里的高空发生剧烈空爆。那次空爆瞬间将2,000平方公里范围内的8,000万棵森林树木彻底击倒，其破坏面积相当于整个大伦敦地区。演播室制作人杰米（Jamie）随即调出了现场历史照片，罗根与汉考克惊叹于画面中倒塌的森林宛如被多米诺骨牌推倒的火柴棒。汉考克强调，人类之所以能侥幸逃过浩劫，纯粹是因为它落在了极少有人居住的荒原；如果它当时在大都市上空爆炸，瞬间就会夺去数十万人的生命。这场12,800年前改变地球命运的彗星残骸从未远离，它至今仍是悬在现代人类头顶的达摩克利斯之剑。 ### [49:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=2989s) 太空监视与人类的宇宙责任 Graham Hancock 强调，谈论这些古老的大灾难并非要散布末日恐慌，而是带有一种极为积极的意义：人类几乎可以肯定是地球上第一个有能力主动干预宇宙环境的文明。如果人类选择采取行动，就能确保自己不会沦为下一个失落的文明，让地球上的生命与文明的故事延续下去。现在已有不少科学家表达了同样的观点，认为假装这类撞击每一亿年才发生一次、人类无需担忧是极其不负责任的。 Graham Hancock 直言当前的全球预算分配极为荒谬：全球每年浪费数万亿美元制造大规模杀伤性武器，将资源倾注于仇恨、恐惧与猜忌之中，而用于防御近地天体威胁的“太空监视”（Spacewatch）项目每年仅能分到大约 2000 万到 3000 万美元。他给出了一个极其讽刺的对比：“大约相当于维持一家麦当劳餐厅一年的运营成本，就是我们目前用于研究来自宇宙环境威胁的全部投入。”他呼吁各国停止内耗，将其转变为一个全球性的人类合作宏大工程。 - 全球军备开销：每年数万亿美元 - 全球太空威胁监视预算：每年仅约 2000 万至 3000 万美元 - Joe Rogan 对比评价：人类是种古怪而足智多谋的动物，在一万多年前险些灭绝，如今不仅重新认识自身与宇宙的互动史，更具备了干预天体灾变的技术基础。 ### [51:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=3117s) 8000 代现代人与被抹除的史前记录 对谈转向了现代人类学与史前时间的巨大尺度。解剖学意义上的现代人类化石最早可以确证追溯到约 19.6 万年前，甚至有可信样本达到 21 万年前。这意味着拥有与现代人完全相同的大脑容量和身体构型的人类已经在地球上繁衍了大约 20 万年。这引出了一个巨大的历史谜团：为什么人类要等待将近 19 万年才建立已知的第一个文明？ Randall Carlson 用极为直观的代际数学揭示了传统史观的局限：他的祖父出生于 1895 年，当时除了火车外主要出行方式还是骑马；而祖父的祖父出生于美国内战之前。仅仅过去 5 代人，人类就从占人口 90% 的自给自足式农业封建社会，跨越到了工业革命并进入现代科技时代。如果以每代人 25 年计算，将 19.6 万年除以 25，人类历史上总共经历了将近 8000 代人。在长达 8000 代人的时间里，人类完全有可能经历过文明的兴起与毁灭。 ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: 人类代际跨度对比 accDescr: 对比现代工业文明耗费的5代人与现代智人存在的8000代人历史。 subgraph 近现代跨度 A["5 代人<br/>(约 120 年)"] --> B["从农耕/马车到现代科技"] end subgraph 史前智人跨度 C["约 8,000 代人<br/>(约 19.6 万年)"] --> D["无数未知的文明可能与灭绝周期"] end ``` 在智人存在的 20 万年间，地球至少经历了四次大型冰期旋回。虽然大约 1.2 万年前新仙女木期的灾难可能是近 500 万年（自亨普希尔期 Hemphillian 事件以来）最剧烈的一次生物灭绝事件，但其间全球尺度的动荡从未止息。在冰期，最适宜人类居住的地方必然是海岸线和河口，但随着冰盖消融、海平面上升 300 到 400 英尺，大部分沿海聚落痕迹都会被彻底吞没。 - 最早现代智人化石：约 19.6 万至 21 万年前 - 现代科技跨度：仅需 5 代人（从农耕和马车发展至现代工业） - 现代智人总历史跨度：近 8000 代人 - 陆地淹没面积：末次冰期结束时全球约 1000 万平方英里土地被淹没，相当于欧洲与中国的面积总和。 ### [55:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=3311s) 海洋考古的盲区与大陆冰盖的“地表橡皮擦” Graham Hancock 指出，当前解开失落文明之谜的最大阻碍之一在于海洋考古学（Marine Archaeology）的研究偏见。主流海洋考古把绝大部分资源和注意力都放在搜寻近代沉船上，而忽视了冰期结束时沉入海底的史前陆地。这种偏见根植于主流学术界的预设——他们预先假定 1.2 万年前不可能存在高级文明，因而对海底可能掩埋的人类定居点缺乏系统发掘的意愿。 与此同时，陆地上的证据同样面临毁灭性的物理抹除。Randall Carlson 解释道，在北美和加拿大中部，冰期时覆盖的冰盖厚度达到了 1 英里甚至 2 英里（约 1600 至 3200 米）。数千米厚的冰层像巨大的橡皮擦一样在地面上刮过，足以将原本存在于冰盖下方的一切地表建筑与文明痕迹彻底碾磨成齑粉。 Graham Hancock 直言： > “10 million square miles of the Earth's surface, roughly Europe and China added together, was submerged by the rising sea levels at the end of the last Ice Age.” 主流考古记录恰恰缺失了这一横跨上千万平方公里的核心地理空间。 ### [56:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=3410s) 地壳均衡补偿与亚速尔群岛假说 Randall Carlson 进一步用生动的比喻解释了地质学中的“地壳均衡下沉”（Isostatic Depression）现象：这就像一个人坐在坐垫上，臀部的重量把坐垫压扁；当人站起身时，坐垫便会反弹复原。冰期时数百万亿吨的冰川覆盖在北美等大陆上，导致陆地表面下沉多达数千英尺。 随着灾变引发的融冰，大陆释放了重压并开始反弹隆起（Post-glacial rebound），而巨大的水体重量被转移回各大洋盆地。地球流变学（Rheology）表明，地球内部质量分布必须保持平衡：一个区域上升，另一个区域必然下沉。这一“跷跷板”效应为沉没大陆（如柏拉图记载的大西洋岛/亚特兰蒂斯）提供了严肃的地球物理机制： ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 冰期融化与地壳跷跷板效应 accDescr: 展示大陆冰盖消融如何通过重量转移引发洋盆与边缘隆起带下沉。 subgraph 冰期状态 A["巨厚冰盖压覆北美大陆<br/>(下沉达数千英尺)"] --> B["外围隆起带抬升<br/>(Glacial Forebulge)"] end subgraph 消融状态 C["冰盖迅速融化<br/>大陆地壳反弹上升"] --> D["巨量融水注入大洋盆地"] D --> E["洋盆与大西洋中脊边缘急剧下沉<br/>(如亚速尔群岛海域)"] end ``` 这种机制解释了历史上的陆地沉没： - **中大西洋海岭与亚速尔群岛**：现有经验地质证据显示，中大西洋海岭（即柏拉图所指的亚特兰蒂斯位置）在冰后期的确经历过剧烈的地壳构造下沉。 - **英国现实例证**：末次冰期冰盖压在苏格兰北部，导致英格兰南部被动抬升（冰川前缘隆起 Glacial Forebulge）；冰川消融后，苏格兰地壳回弹上升，而英格兰南部（如怀特岛 Isle of Wight）至今仍在持续下沉入海。 - **加的斯（Cádiz）水下遗迹的澄清**：针对西班牙加的斯附近发现的水下同心圆构造，Graham Hancock 指出该遗迹的年代远比冰期晚近得多，很可能只是后来因局部海岸变迁而沉入水中的普通古代港口。 在讨论临近尾声时，Joe Rogan 提起公众与学界对这类灾变地质学观点的抗拒心态，并提到一位科学家朋友在他上一期节目播出后，竟然质问他是否在节目里请了一位“气候变化否定论者”（Climate Denier），由此引出科学界对于非传统气候与地质历史叙事的深层偏见。 ### [59:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=3587s) 气候辩论的意识形态化与人类责任 谈话从对“气候变化怀疑论者”这一标签的讨论展开。Graham Hancock 指出，当有人提出非主流观点或争议视角时，公众往往不愿深入审视其逻辑，而是立刻将其贴上标签并一棍子打死。气候议题现已沦为一场激烈的意识形态斗争。Hancock 强调，气候确实在变化，人类必须反思自身行为，但这不该建立在单一的意识形态教条之上。人类对待地球的方式如同寄生虫，肆意污染生态，甚至疯狂到制造并引爆核武器。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 气候变化争议与责任层级 accDescr: 展示环境伦理与气候成因辩论之间的区别 subgraph Ethical ["伦理与行为层面 (毋庸置疑)"] E1["停止污染破坏生态"] E2["反思核武器等自我毁灭行为"] E3["哲学与道德上的自我约束"] end subgraph Ideological ["意识形态与科学层面 (尚待验证)"] I1["主流观点: 完全归咎于人类温室气体"] I2["深层科学: 探索宇宙大尺度与地球自然驱动力"] I1 -.->|"教条化打压"| I2 end Ethical -->|"应独立于气候成因"| I1 ``` Hancock 认为，改变自身破坏性的行为本就是哲学上的应有之义，无论全球变暖是否存在，人类都应该善待彼此和地球。但将所有行为修正的前提绑架在“全球变暖”之上，则是未经验证的狭隘归因。 > “There's lots about our behavior that we need to fix because it's right to fix it philosophically right; we should not behave that way, we should not behave that way to one another, we should not behave that way to planet Earth. But to say that we need to fix our behavior because of global warming, that's an ideological argument, and that argument remains to be properly tested.” —— Graham Hancock - 公众反应往往存在非黑即白的倾向，将对气候归因的学术探讨误解为“否认气候正在改变”。 - Hancock 主张即便完全不谈气候变暖，人类滥用母星、制造大规模污染和核军备的恶行也必须彻底终止。 --- ### [01:01:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=3673s) 小冰期、冰川退缩与自然气候基线 Randall Carlson 回顾了上期节目后收到的负面评论，指出批评者无法容忍他对气候变暖教条提出的质疑。然而，诸多客观地质事实是无法回避的：目前的变暖进程早在200年前就已经启动，小冰期（Little Ice Age）的冰川早在19世纪初就开始消退，比人类向大气大规模排放二氧化碳整整早了一个世纪，说明最初驱动变暖的力量完全来自自然界。 ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: 冰川演变与历史基线流程 accDescr: 展现从中世纪温暖期到现代冰川消退的历史循环 A["中世纪温暖期<br>(谷地森林与泥炭沼泽)"] -->|"约1400年-1800年<br>小冰期极寒"| B["冰川大幅扩张<br>(达万年来最大规模)"] B -->|"19世纪初启动消退<br>(早于人类工业排放)"| C["现代冰川退缩<br>(揭露出被掩埋的远古树木)"] ``` Carlson 进一步阐释，小冰期是自末次冰期结束以来地球最寒冷的时期，当时的冰川规模达到了近一万年来的峰值。因此，现代人在讨论冰川消退时，所采用的“参照基线”本身就是万年来的极端最高值。随着当今冰川进一步融化消退，地质学家和冰川学家在冰层下发现了被小冰期冰川碾压掩埋的森林遗迹和泥炭沼泽，这直接证明在公元1400年至1800年之前（如中世纪温暖期），这些峡谷曾完全没有冰雪覆盖。 > “So something was driving that warming that began, and it's important to realize that the Little Ice Age was probably the coldest period since the end of the Great Ice Age; in fact, the data overwhelmingly supports that, and that the glaciers grew to their largest extent around the planet in 10,000 years.” —— Randall Carlson - 冰川退缩并非近代工业时代独有的现象，19世纪早期的冰川融化完全由未知的自然力驱动。 - 冰川下方重见天日的古代木材与泥炭层表明，在小冰期到来之前，许多如今被冰封的山谷曾是植被茂密的林地。 - 自然界自身的气候动态极其剧烈，将气候变动的变量仅仅押在人类碳排放这一个篮子里存在巨大盲区。 --- ### [01:03:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=3799s) 宇宙生态系统与被割裂的星空视界 Carlson 警告，将所有地质、洋流、风带、地磁场、宇宙射线及火山活动等自然因素一概忽略，仅专注于人类自身活动，可能会导致人类错失真正驱动大周期气候骤变的自然规律。他提出，至今学界仍未对地球进入和脱离冰期的核心机制达成绝对共识，而他和 Hancock 所研究的大规模宇宙尺度碰撞正是潜在解答。地球绝非封闭系统，而是宏大宇宙生态的一部分，古代先民深知“其疾如斯，如其在上，如其在下”（As Above, So Below）的深刻联系。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 现代人与宇宙生态的脱节 accDescr: 现代城市人造环境造成心理与宇宙视界的割裂 U["人造城市环境<br>(灯光、屏幕、建筑)"] -->|"制造光污染迷雾"| B["视界阻隔<br>(肉眼无法观测星空与流星)"] B -->|"心理后果"| P["宇宙疏离感<br>(丧失身处太空飞行的整体视角)"] E["荒野原生观测<br>(蒙大拿荒野、凯克天文台)"] -->|"穿透云层与迷雾"| A["重拾敬畏<br>(体验宇宙生态的宏大与神圣)"] ``` 随后，Joe Rogan 和 Hancock 探讨了现代文明带来的视界屏障。城市严重的光污染犹如一道人造帷幕，将现代人与浩瀚星空隔绝。Rogan 回忆了自己在蒙大拿州露营的经历，在毫无光污染的旷野仰望星空，会带来一种近乎迷幻的震撼体验，让人切身感知到人类正乘着一颗星球在宇宙深处穿行。Rogan 还提到夏威夷大岛的凯克天文台（W. M. Keck Observatory），当地在海拔9000英尺以上设有访客中心，为了天文观测特意在整座岛屿安装漫射路灯控制光污染。穿过云层后所见的璀璨银河无比震撼，令人难以置信这样的壮景每夜都在头顶上演，却被现代都市生活彻底剥夺。 > “To understand our planet as a system, we have to realize that it's part of a cosmic ecosystem, and the cosmos has been a much bigger player in what's been going on down here than has been previously understood or appreciated.” —— Randall Carlson - 古代文明对星空的持续观测绝非迷信，而是深刻感知到宇宙事件与地面环境息息相关。 - 现代科技虽然拉近了全球距离甚至能探索太空，却将绝大多数人的日常注意力收窄在屏幕与灯火之间。 --- ### [01:07:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=4036s) 重建与自然的认知连接 Carlson 与 Rogan 感叹，现代人创造了宏伟的建筑、笔记本电脑和智能手机，却在这个过程中牺牲了真正的宇宙视角。现代城市居民常年看不到流星，甚至连基础的天文常识都已彻底荒废。Carlson 指出，生活在亚特兰大等大都市的人们，包括很多受过高等教育的成年人，若没有工具辅助，根本找不出北极星（North Star），也不知道黄道面（Plane of the Ecliptic）在何处。 Carlson 提出，为后代所能做的最重要的教育改革之一，就是将年轻一代带出钢筋水泥的城市，让他们走进蒙大拿或高地荒漠（High Desert Country）等自然旷野。在那样的旷野里，群星低垂如触手可及。唯有让年轻人的感官重新直面神圣而广袤的宇宙环境，人类意识才能与更宏大的存在重新联结，打破现代人自我设限的认知孤岛。 > “I think that one of the most important things that we could do for future generations is part of our educational curriculum for young people is get them out of the cities into nature, into the tremendous, you know, where they can actually see the sky.” —— Randall Carlson - 荒漠与无光害高地拥有触手可及般的清晰星空，是唤醒人类自然感知的最佳场所。 - 丧失对黄道面和星座方位的直观感知，象征着现代人类在意识层面上与哺育自身的宇宙环境严重割裂。 ### [01:08:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=4136s) 仰望星空：古老启蒙体系与现代意识形态的禁锢 格雷厄姆·汉考克（Graham Hancock）指出，走出门去真正观察夜空、辨认星座以及确认行星的位置，是一种极佳的让心智脚踏实地的训练（grounding experience）。对古人而言，搞清楚穹顶之上的运行规律不仅能激活大脑，甚至可能曾被古代专门用作一种“启蒙/入会系统”（initiation system）——唯有领悟了这一层天文奥秘，才有资格迈向下一个知识阶梯。兰德尔·卡尔森（Randall Carlson）随即补充，这在过去曾是教育的核心基石，而在今天的主流教育中却几乎无人提及。 汉考克进一步探讨了现代学术界对占星学的意识形态偏见。主流科学家一旦听到占星学往往嗤之以鼻，直接斥其为“伪科学”，根源在于他们深陷于狭隘的“以地球为中心”的世界观，坚信外在宇宙对人类毫无影响。汉考克强调，尽管现代占星学已被严重稀释和商业化低俗化，但绝不应“把婴儿和洗澡水一起倒掉”。主流顶尖学者理查德·塔纳斯（Richard Tarnas）在巨著《宇宙与心灵》（*Cosmos and Psyche*）中已通过严密论证指出，星象与人类确实存在深层关联。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 古代星象学与现代偏见对比 accDescr: 展示古代将星象视为启蒙教育核心，而现代学术界用标签进行意识形态审查的认知断层。 subgraph Ancient["古代宇宙认知"] A["观察星空与行星运动"] --> B["思维训练与启蒙晋级"] B --> C["认识天人相应的宇宙环境"] end subgraph Modern["现代认知壁垒"] D["孤立的地心视角偏见"] --> E["贴上'伪科学/伪考古'标签"] E --> F["思想禁锢：拒绝跳出框架思考"] end ``` 汉考克批判了现代考古学界滥用指责性标签的现象。考古学家动辄使用“伪考古学家”或“伪科学家”这类词汇进行定性，其本质与如今用“气候怀疑论者/气候否认者”（climate denier）来剥夺一个人的发言权毫无二致。汉考克直言： > “These are ideological tools which are being used to straight jacket the human mind and to stop us thinking outside the box and if there's ever a time that we needed to think outside the box I would say that time is right now.”（这些都是被用来束缚人类思维、阻止我们跳出框架思考的意识形态工具；如果说历史上有什么时刻需要我们跳出思维定式，我认为正是当下。） - 理查德·塔纳斯（Richard Tarnas）：主流知名学者，著有《宇宙与心灵》（*Cosmos and Psyche*），探讨宇宙天象与人类心灵/历史事件之间的深层关联。 - “伪考古”与“气候否认者”标签：被当作即时驳斥、剥夺他人发声资格的思想紧身衣（straight jacket）。 --- ### [01:11:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=4275s) 地球的沧海桑田与永恒星空：地平线即望远镜 乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）感叹道，在当今普通人唾手可得的信息量远超以往任何时代的背景下，讽刺的是，人类对头顶星空的感知和敬畏却降到了历史最低点。兰德尔·卡尔森借此提出了一个宏大的对比视角：地球表面是极其动态且剧烈变化的。若退回到末次冰期结束时，现今加利福尼亚以东的莫哈韦沙漠（Mojave Desert）当时曾是水草丰美的草原与茂密森林；而离岸的圣罗莎岛（Santa Rosa Island）上长满了橡树和山毛榉，甚至游弋着岛屿侏儒猛犸象（*Mammuthus exilis*）。 地面上的一切都在经历天翻地覆的剧变，但当人们仰望星空时，所看到的苍穹与两万年前的祖先所见到的几乎完全一致。在这张恒定不变的宇宙背景幕布之下，偶尔发生的任何微小天象变动，在古人看来都预示着地面上将降临直接的灾难与后果。正因如此，从巨石阵（Stonehenge）到北美原住民建造的土偶巨冢（mounds），再到惊人的哥贝克力石阵（Göbekli Tepe），古人都无比痴迷于观测天体运行。他们实际上是将“地平线”作为一种宏大的天然望远镜，用以捕捉恒星背景中极为细微的轨迹位移，从而获取预测未来的能力。 - 莫哈韦沙漠（Mojave Desert）：在冰期末期曾是森林与湿润草原，而非如今的荒漠。 - 圣罗莎岛（Santa Rosa Island）：曾被橡树与山毛榉覆盖，是侏儒猛犸象（*Mammuthus exilis*）的栖息地。 - 哥贝克力石阵（Göbekli Tepe）：不仅年代久远，而且具有深刻的天文观测台属性。 - 观测机制：利用地平线参照物作为测量基准，精细追踪恒星相较于固定背景的周期运动。 --- ### [01:13:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=4386s) 岁差之谜与《哈姆雷特的石磨》：神话中封存的高等科学 当乔·罗根询问考古学家发掘哥贝克力石阵等遗址时，是如何将建筑与星座关联起来并进行测算时，汉考克直言不讳地指出，绝大多数正统考古学家根本不做这项工作，因为他们缺乏天文学素养：“他们的眼睛始终盯在脚下两英寸的泥土里，天文学对他们来说毫无意义，于是他们把这种无知投射到古代，想当然地认为天文学对古人也不重要。”唯有少数考古天文学家（archaeoastronomers）在进行严密考证。例如埃及的某些神庙中轴线在两三千年的时间里曾发生过数次微调，正是为了持续精确锁定天狼星（Sirius，在埃及神话中与伊西斯女神相连）的升起点，而导致恒星升起点变化的根本原因正是地球的轴向进动（地轴摇摆）。凡是精确对准正南正北正东正西、或锁定分至点日出的遗迹，毫无疑问都有古代天文学家的深度参与。 汉考克进一步深入到人类最惊人的科学发现之一——“岁差”（Precession of the Equinoxes，即地球轴向进动引起的25,920年春分点周期，又称“大年” Great Year）。麻省理工学院（MIT）科学史教授乔治·德·桑蒂利亚纳（Giorgio de Santillana）与学者赫塔·冯·德兴（Hertha von Dechend）曾在开创性著作《哈姆雷特的石磨》（*Hamlet's Mill*）中证实，全球古老神话中普遍隐藏着基于数字“72”及其倍数的天文密码。因为春分点每移动1度，恰好需要整整72年（在肉眼观测中仅相当于地平线上伸出一根手指的宽度）。古人深知若不经过数千年持续严密的观测与记录，绝不可能发现北极星在由织女、右枢、勾陈一（Polaris）等恒星之间循环更替的规律。为了让这项关乎宇宙周期的至高智慧历经浩劫仍不失传，远古高度发达的智慧文明将其编码进了伟大的叙事神话中，世代相传。汉考克总结道： > “In the oldest myths and traditions of mankind we have compelling evidence for scientific knowledge of the phenomenon that we call the procession of the equinoxes today which has been referred to by Hamlet's Mill as the great year.”（在人类最古老的神话与传说中，我们找到了确凿无可辩驳的证据，证明古人早已掌握了我们今天称之为岁差现象的科学知识——也就是《哈姆雷特的石磨》中所称的‘大年’。） - 岁差（Precession of the Equinoxes）周期常数：完整周期为 25,920 年（大年 Great Year）；每移动 1 度的位移需要 72 年。 - 核心参考文献：乔治·德·桑蒂利亚纳（Giorgio de Santillana，MIT 科学史教授）与赫塔·冯·德兴（Hertha von Dechend）合著的《哈姆雷特的石磨》（*Hamlet's Mill*）。 - 传承机制：将精密数学/天文数据编制入神话母题，说书人即使不理解背后的科学原理，也能凭借“务必如实复述故事”的文化伦理，将这份“幽灵般的史前高等文明指纹”完好传递给后世。 ### [01:17:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=4673s) 玛雅历法与银河对齐窗口 对话首先围绕玛雅神庙与天文学的关系展开。Joe Rogan 询问学界是否已经公认玛雅神庙是按照星座排列来修建的。Graham Hancock 明确证实了这一点：主流学界完全承认玛雅文化具有高度发达的天文学，其神庙建筑与天象紧密相连。但他强调，学界并未正视这种天文现象背后真正深远的影响。例如震惊全球的“2012年世界末日”传言，实际上是对玛雅历法的误读。玛雅人从未宣称世界会在某一天终结，而是指一个“大周期”（Great Cycle）的结束与新生。 Hancock 向已故独立学者约翰·梅杰·詹金斯（John Major Jenkins）致敬，指出他在 2012 年前数十年就已经通过精准计算证明：玛雅历法的真正锚点是**冬至太阳与银河中心的对齐**。由于岁差（precession）的影响，在过去五千年间，每年 12 月 21 日冬至的太阳在星空背景下的位置逐步向银河中心移动，最终在 2012 年冬至实现重合。Hancock 特别说明，这种对齐并不是发生在某个特定瞬间的“点”，而是一个长达大约 80 年的“天文窗口期”（大致为 1960 年至 2040 年）。更为惊人的是，玛雅历不仅对太阳年长度的测算比现代常用的日历更准，还能预测前后 20 万年内的月食。 Randall Carlson 随即补充了岁差在微观尺度上的几何逻辑。每 72 年岁差移动 1 度，而在一个包含 25,920 年的“大年”（Great Year）里，这 1 度就相当于大年中的“一天”；因此，大约 72 年的人类寿命，正好映射了宇宙大年的一天。同时，银河中心并非一个孤立的针尖，而是一片弥散区域。太阳的刺目光芒导致肉眼无法直视其背景星座，但古人可以通过观测“月全食”来锁定太阳的位置——月全食时月球与太阳严格呈 180 度对冲，观测月食背后的星空就能精准推算出太阳在天球上的坐标。 - 玛雅历法在 Hancock 看来是“失落文明的遗存 artifact”，先传承给奥尔梅克人（Olmecs），再被玛雅人继承。 - 银河对齐窗口宽约 80 年，时间跨度从 1960 年持续到 2040 年。 - 玛雅历法对太阳年的测算精度甚至超越了现代日常生活所沿用的公历。 - 满月的视直径约为 0.5 度；岁差每 72 年移动 1 度，相当于两个满月的视宽度。 > “The Mayan calendar, in my view, is another artifact of a lost civilization that was handed down from a former people, perhaps to the Olmecs and then to the Maya who succeeded them.” —— Graham Hancock --- ### [01:22:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=4936s) 哥贝克力石阵43号石柱的天象时间胶囊 话题迅速切换到哥贝克力石阵（Göbekli Tepe）的 D 区（Enclosure D）43 号石柱（秃鹰石柱，Vulture Stone）。Graham Hancock 提出，这根布满丰富雕刻的石柱，本质上是一幅精确描绘“我们当前时代冬至天空”的星图时间胶囊。石柱中央展翅秃鹰翅膀上方的圆球并非篮球，而是象征着太阳；而秃鹰与其两侧的图像，正好对应着银河系中心的暗裂缝（Dark Rift，玛雅人称为“宇宙子宫”）以及人马座和天蝎座。 Hancock 详细拆解了石柱上的浮雕元素与现代星座的对应关系：下方是古老的天蝎形象；右侧的小鸟代表天蝎座的头部，下方的蝎尾与之呼应；而小鸟上方的毒蛇以及一只形似阴茎的鸟，则分别对应现代星图中的巨蛇座（Serpens）和蛇夫座（Ophiuchus）。他指出，只有在我们所处的这个时代，冬至的太阳才会精准坐落在银河中心的暗区上方。这一图像被 1.1 万多年前建造哥贝克力石阵的人刻在石柱上，证明他们不仅精通岁差，还具备惊人的前瞻推算能力，刻意给万年之后的我们留下了这幅星象图。Joe 忍不住打趣说自己第一眼看到的是“一只秃鹰在打篮球躲避蝎子，旁边还有个阴茎在袭击它”。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 哥贝克力石阵43号石柱天象符号对应图 accDescr: 展示43号石柱上的雕刻符号与天文学星座及银河结构的对应关系 subgraph PillarSymbols ["43号石柱浮雕符号"] SunDisk["秃鹰上方的圆球"] ScorpionGlyph["底部蝎子雕刻"] SmallBird["右侧小鸟"] SerpentGlyph["小鸟上方的蛇"] PhallicBird["蛇身旁的奇异鸟形"] end subgraph CelestialEquiv ["对应现代天文学概念"] SolsticeSun["冬至太阳（位于银河暗裂缝/宇宙子宫）"] ScorpioTail["天蝎座身体及尾部"] ScorpioHead["天蝎座头部"] ConstSerpens["巨蛇座 (Serpens)"] ConstOphiuchus["蛇夫座 (Ophiuchus / 持蛇者)"] end SunDisk -->|"象征"| SolsticeSun ScorpionGlyph -->|"对应"| ScorpioTail SmallBird -->|"对应"| ScorpioHead SerpentGlyph -->|"对应"| ConstSerpens PhallicBird -->|"对应"| ConstOphiuchus ``` - 哥贝克力石阵 43 号石柱（Pillar 43）位于 D 环形建筑内，因其标志性的秃鹰雕刻而闻名。 - 玛雅天文学中的“宇宙子宫”（Cosmic Womb）即银河系核心的暗裂缝，代表宇宙重生与大周期的交替。 - Hancock 强调该石柱上的雕刻属于高浮雕（High Relief），工匠需要凿除周围所有多余岩石让图案凸起，工序极其复杂。 > “It appears that they deliberately sent forward into time, in this time capsule, a picture of the sky in our age, and that is a staggering possibility that I investigate.” —— Graham Hancock --- ### [01:26:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=5166s) 神秘的“手提包”图案与被压制的致幻剂历史 在观察 43 号石柱顶端时，Hancock 指出最上方并排刻有三个酷似“手提包”（handbags）的物体。这种提包状的神秘符号并非孤例，它跨越了地域与大洋，广泛出现在美洲墨西哥文明、美索不达米亚苏美尔浮雕、以及古印度造像之中。Rogan 调侃说这可能预示着“过度购物消费最终会毁灭我们”，或者包里其实装着远古先民的“私藏存货”（stash）。 调侃之余，Hancock 严肃指出这些提包可能真正与“古文明对致幻植物的使用”存在内在关联。他批评主流考古学和历史学存在意识形态上的刻意回避——当权者和主流建制厌恶致幻剂，因此系统性抹杀了致幻体验在塑造古代文明、宗教 rituals 和哲学思想中的核心地位。Joe Rogan 对此深表赞同，直言任何学者如果拒绝将致幻剂对人类意识形态的巨大影响纳入考量，那么他们关于古文明历史的其他论调都会大打折扣；那些对古文明致幻仪式视而不见的学者，本质上只是因为自身从未拥有过这种改变维度的体验。 - “手提包”状图腾同时跨越了至少 11,000 年前的哥贝克力石阵、美索不达米亚文明与美洲前哥伦布文明。 - 两人均认为古老文明的精神高度与萨满式致幻体验（Psychedelics）密不可分。 - 主流学术界对古人运用致幻植物的证据视而不见，被批评为一种现代社会的“意识形态否认”（ideological denial）。 > “The use of psychedelics in ancient civilizations was fundamental to the quality of those civilizations, and this is another area we're in ideological denial about because the powers that be in our society don't like psychedelics.” —— Graham Hancock ### [01:27:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=5250s) 改变意识状态与考古学的盲区 Graham Hancock 指出，目前受托为人类解释过去的考古学家们面临着一个根本问题：他们绝大多数人一生中从未体验过致幻剂（psychedelics）。Joe Rogan 开玩笑说，真想抓来一位考古学家对他说：“给我 15 分钟，来一次 DMT 体验，整件事对你来说就会豁然开朗。”Hancock 深表赞同，认为这是考古学家极其必要的体验，因为改变意识状态在古代世界是普遍存在的现象。现代社会将致幻剂妖魔化、视其为纯粹负面的毒物，但在远古文明中，它们却受到崇敬并居于神秘仪式的心脏地位。例如古希腊的厄琉息斯秘仪（Eleusinian Mysteries）便使用了一种与 LSD 相关的秘药，让入会者获得震撼灵魂的启示并改变一生。 Hancock 强调，主流考古学在书写历史与文明起源时犯下了两大严重错误：第一，完全无视了 12,800 年前发生的那场巨大灾难；第二，彻底忽略了改变意识状态（Altered States of Consciousness）在远古文明中的核心角色。思想上的意识形态遮眼罩彻底封闭了探究各种可能性的视野。随后他们谈到了哥贝克力石阵（Göbekli Tepe）石柱上刻着的奇特浮雕，Rogan 调侃石柱上那些类似手提包的图案看起来像女性的手提包，仿佛在警示“购物中心会毁灭所有人”，甚至打趣说哥贝克力石阵说不定是个古老商场。 - 古代厄琉息斯秘仪所使用的精神活性饮品在仪式中带来了深远的精神转化。 - Hancock 认为主流学界面临双重盲区：一是忽视地质大灾难，二是排斥意识状态的研究。 ### [01:29:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=5344s) 遍布全球的“神秘提包”象征与失落兄弟会假说 Hancock 解释说，这种类似“手提包”或小囊袋的神秘象征符号实际上遍布全球各个古老文明。在墨西哥拉文塔（La Venta）的奥尔梅克（Olmec）遗址出土的石刻中，羽蛇神魁札尔科亚特尔（Quetzalcoatl）的最早造像显示，一名男子盘坐于羽蛇身躯的盘卷之中，手中正提着完全相同的手提包。无独有偶，在古代苏美尔神话中，被视作文明传授者的半人半鱼贤者欧涅斯（Oannes，阿普卡鲁 Apkallu 之一），在浮雕中也无一例外地提着一模一样的包。 面对这种惊人的跨大洋一致性，Hancock 提出了一种假说：这是否代表着某个在史前周游世界、四处播撒文明种子的远古隐秘组织？这个提包或许是他们的身份识别徽章，如同共济会的特殊握手礼一样。尽管他承认这纯属推测，但它揭示了全球神话与遗存中不可忽视的联系。随后 Rogan 提问，既然如今学界已经承认玛雅神庙是按照天体星座精确对齐排列的，考古学界是否愿意用相同的眼光审视其他遗址。 ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: 全球远古提包象征对比 accDescr: 展示墨西哥奥尔梅克与古代苏美尔文明中神秘提包符号的相似性与假说 subgraph Americas ["美洲文明 (墨西哥)"] A["拉文塔 (La Venta) 奥尔梅克遗址"] --> B["羽蛇神 Quetzalcoatl 浮雕"] B --> C["手提神秘小包"] end subgraph Mesopotamia ["美索不达米亚文明"] D["苏美尔神话体系"] --> E["文明传授者 Oannes (Apkallu)"] E --> F["手提完全相同的神秘小包"] end C -.-> G{"全球播种文明的史前兄弟会？"} F -.-> G ``` ### [01:30:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=5436s) 考古天文学的界限与主流学术教条 Hancock 回答说，考古学中确实存在一个专门的分支学科——考古天文学（archaeoastronomy）。这群学者精通天文学，但他们同时也接受了主流考古学根本教条的洗脑：即历史上绝不可能存在先进的失落文明，考古学已经拼凑出了人类历史的完整大纲，后人所要做的不过是填充细枝末节而已。 Hancock 警告称，这种教条从学者进入考古学的第一天起就根深蒂固，主流考古学家一旦试图挑战它，职业生涯就彻底终结了：“任何探讨 12,000 多年前全球存在先进失落文明可能性的考古学家，都将失去作为考古学家的未来，仅此一点就会断送他的余生事业。”（“Any archaeologist who entertains the possibility of an advanced lost civilization around the world more than 12,000 years ago will have no future as an archaeologist.”）Rogan 对此感到极度不安，认为这种认为“我们已经知晓一切”的自大心态令人窒息，尤其是考古新发现层出不穷，比如几天前西伯利亚刚发现了丹尼索瓦人（Denisovans）的巨大牙齿化石，明摆着人类演化的故事远比教科书上的复杂。 - 考古天文学作为被认可的分支，依然受制于主流考古学不可逾越的历史框架。 - 挑战“无史前高等文明”教条的学者面临严重的学术排挤与职业生涯被毁的风险。 - 近期丹尼索瓦人等古人类化石的新发现，直接证明人类演化史仍有大量未解之谜。 ### [01:32:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=5525s) 理性的局限、梦境的知识与“伪科学”标签 Hancock 批判现代科学将人脑的功能单一化，仅仅截取了清醒状态下解决现实问题的逻辑推理能力，而将直觉、想象力与梦境全盘摒弃。在古代世界，人类通过梦境获取真知的力量备受尊崇；而到了现代，如果称呼某人为“梦想家”（dreamer），几乎等于一种人身侮辱。荷马在史诗中曾描述过“象牙之门”与“牛角之门”：穿越象牙之门的梦是虚妄的幻象与噩梦，而穿越牛角之门的梦则是神圣的真实揭示。古人深知梦境蕴含智慧，现代人却将其一概贬斥为荒谬。 主流学术界对任何不合教条的理论都会直接扣上“伪科学”（pseudo-science）的大帽子。Hancock 指出，主流学者经常称他为“伪科学家”（即假科学家），这让他啼笑皆非：“我根本不是科学家，我从未自称是科学家，我也从不想成为科学家；我是一名作家，一名记者，负责综合跨领域的知识素材，既然我从未自称是科学家，我又怎么可能是个‘假科学家’呢？”（“I'm not a scientist at all, I've never claimed to be a scientist, I don't want to be a scientist, I'm a writer, I'm a journalist, I synthesize material across a broad range of disciplines, so how can I be a false scientist since I've never claimed to be one?”）Rogan 附和道，这个词就像一把专制的大棒，是一种防弹般的贬义词，只要往别人身上一贴，就能让公众立刻拒绝倾听对方的任何陈述。 ### [01:34:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=5666s) 历史大拼图的汇合与考古学的落后 Rogan 指出，从 Hancock 早期的经典著作《上帝的指纹》（*Fingerprints of the Gods*）一路走来，如今主流科学与地质学的新发现正在一步步印证他的推测，再加上 Randall Carlson 毕生研究的地质证据，整个失落文明图景正在人们眼前生动地展现。Hancock 感慨，人类知识正迎来一个交汇的黄金时刻：一方面，12,800 年前大灾难的科学证据不断涌现；另一方面，世界各地纷纷发掘出旧历史模型完全无法解释的史前遗址。 Rogan 梳理了本期节目中展示的一连串铁证： - 遍布全球地层的黑色席垫层（Black Mat layer），证实了广袤森林的剧烈大火； - 彗星撞击形成的微型钻石（nanodiamonds）与核爆级高温熔融玻璃； - 急剧的气候突变以及巨型哺乳动物的大灭绝事件。 Rogan 询问主流科学是否承认这期撞击事件。Hancock 说明，撞击证据本身是由主流顶级科学家发现并发表在顶级科学期刊上的，主流地质学界已无法忽视。然而，他是第一个把这些地质学证据整合起来、去重新反思并推翻人类文明起源叙事的人。主流考古学目前在科学整合上严重脱节，必须尽快跟上自然科学界的研究步伐，正视这场改写地球文明史的大灾难。 ### [01:36:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=5796s) 学科壁垒与晚更新世哺乳动物灭绝尖峰 Graham Hancock 指出，目前根本找不到任何一份考虑了 12,800 年至 11,600 年前那场大灾难的考古学文献。科学研究的高度专业化是导致这一断层的主要症结：古生物学家只专注于物种灭绝，海洋地质学家只关注海平面上升，而冰川学家只研究冰川如何消退。Randall Carlson 赞同这一观点，并表示如今跨学科整合的重任几乎全落在了边缘学者或“特立独行者（Mavericks）”的肩上。现代科学的下一阶段必须转向跨领域整合，以构建一个连贯的远古历史模型，因为很多主流科学家其实已经掌握了这些底层数据。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 灾难数据的跨学科整合模型 accDescr: 展现不同专业学科如何各自掌握碎片数据，最终汇聚于新仙女木期大灾难假说 subgraph S1["高度分化的主流学科"] A["古生物学<br/>(物种大灭绝数据)"] B["海洋地质学<br/>(海平面剧升证据)"] C["冰川学<br/>(冰川急速消融痕迹)"] end subgraph S2["跨领域综合突破"] D["12,800~11,600年前大灾难模型<br/>(约13,000年前灭绝与气候尖峰)"] end A --> D B --> D C --> D ``` Randall 随后展示了一张“晚更新世死亡率图表（Late Pleistocene mortality graph）”。该图表基于大约 360 至 370 个经过放射性碳定年法测定的灭绝哺乳动物化石样本，每一个方块代表一具化石遗骸。图表中极其刺眼地出现了一个距今约 13,000 年的死亡尖峰，其时间节点与全球气温剧变、海平面暴涨完全吻合。Joe Rogan 看着图表感到不可思议，认为如此确凿的事实竟未被主流学界纳入人类文明演进的考量，简直不可理喻：“在我看来，这没有对人类文明造成冲击是极其不可思议的。” - 晚更新世哺乳动物灭绝图表汇集了约 360 到 370 个化石样本的放射性碳测年数据。 - 灭绝尖峰精确落在距今约 13,000 年前，与冰川融化、气候震荡及海平面急剧上升完全同步。 --- ### [01:38:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=5924s) 学术界的人性弱点与各领域的“知识过滤器” 面对 Joe Rogan 关于“主流为何对此视而不见”的疑问，Graham Hancock 尖锐地解释道，如果接受这些事实，考古学界就必须承认一个可怕的可能性：“这给考古学带来了一个可怕的可能性，那就是他们关于文明起源的理论彻底错了。”这并不是考古学家之间存在某种恶意阴谋，而是典型的人性使然：当学者将毕生心血和学术声誉绑定在既有的知识体系上时，颠覆这套体系就等于否定他们自己。正如 Graham 所言，科学范式的更替往往需要熬到老一代学者离世，新一代学者成长起来才能实现。 Joe Rogan 补充说，体制内学者即便无视这些灾难证据，依然能按部就班地教授旧教材，不仅没有任何学术后果，还能保住教职并不招惹同行；相反，如果主动打破现状，反而会赌上自己的职业前途。Graham 进一步将反思延伸到考古学之外，探讨这种“知识过滤器（Knowledge Filter）”是否也存在于其他领域，例如现代医学将化疗和放疗奉为不可动摇的正统，而将其他替代疗法统统打成“伪科学”。Joe Rogan 赞同医学界确实长期忽视了营养、冥想、心理压力与整体健康之间的复杂联系，但人们对自身生理健康的关注度终究高于对远古历史的探索，而重新认识地球环境与人类起源，本质上也是文明整体健康的一部分。 - 学术建制派无视新灾难论并不会承担学术代价，但公开挑战既有范式却会直接危及学术教职。 - 知识过滤机制不仅存在于考古学，在现代医学等主流科研体制中同样存在对非正统路线的排斥。 --- ### [01:42:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=6157s) 横跨北美的考察之旅与威纳奇巨型漂砾 话题转向 Graham Hancock 与 Randall Carlson 的实地考察经历。他们曾展开了一场为期近两周的横穿美国大陆公路旅行，同行者还包括摄影师 Brad 以及 Graham 的妻子 Santha。Graham 感慨，过去他访问美国总是乘飞机穿梭于各大城市之间，而这次驱车驰骋在辽阔无垠的“大天空之境（Open Skies Country）”，让他真正领略到北美大陆的壮丽、神秘与宏大，更庆幸有 Randall 这位数十年来对当地地质了如指掌的学者带路。Joe Rogan 随即提醒听众，如果是第一次听这期节目，一定要回看两人以往的单人访谈进行恶补。 随后屏幕上切出一张照片，画面中 Graham 站在一块孤立荒原的庞大巨石旁。Randall 开玩笑说 Graham 这是在“非法入侵”，而这块巨石正是他此前提到过的外来漂砾（Erratic）——一块重达 18,000 吨的巨型孤石，孤零零地矗立在华盛顿州威纳奇（Wenatchee）现代哥伦比亚河上方约 400 英尺的高地处。 - 考察团队历时近两周，横跨北美大陆多处关键地质遗迹，全程留下了详尽的照片与影像记录。 - 威纳奇巨型漂砾重量高达约 18,000 吨，位于哥伦比亚河谷上方约 400 英尺处。 --- ### [01:44:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=6267s) 油轮级冰山与大洪水的搬运机制 针对这块 18,000 吨的巨石是如何出现在高处的，Randall Carlson 解释了其令人震撼的物理机制：它绝不是下层基岩的一部分，而是突兀地坐落在地表之上，经过岩石成分比对，这块漂砾来源于其现址以北约 50 至 75 英里外的区域。要将这样一块上万吨的巨石从几十英里外搬运并推上数百英尺的高地，唯一的物理可能就是它被冻结在一座超级冰山中，随着灾难性大洪水的狂潮一路漂流，最终在冰山搁浅融化后被遗留在原地。 Randall 强调，要使一块重达 18,000 吨的岩石漂浮起来，“你需要一座大约相当于油轮大小的冰山（An iceberg about the size of an oil tanker）”。更关键的是，根据浮力定律，冰山有约 90% 的体积位于水面之下；既然巨石搁浅在现代河道上方 400 英尺处，意味着当时席卷这一地区的特大洪峰水位必须远远高出 400 英尺这一高度。在这片区域穿行时，沿途随处可见被洪水肆意抛洒的巨型孤石，甚至形成了如今被称为“巨石公园（Boulder Park）”的著名地质奇观，成为了远古超级大洪暴最直观的铁证。 - 漂砾并非本地基岩，其岩性与北面 50 至 75 英里外的母岩完全一致。 - 搬运该巨石所需的冰山体量堪比巨型远洋油轮。 - 考虑到冰山 90% 没入水下的物理特性，当时的远古洪水水位必然远远超过了现今地表 400 英尺的高度。 - 当地散落着大量同类外来巨石，典型的地貌集中区现被称为“巨石公园（Boulder Park）”。 ### [01:45:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=6346s) 漂砾之谜与哈兰·布雷茨的悲壮平反 Randall Carlson 与 Graham Hancock 继续探讨北美大洪水的地质痕迹。Randall 指出，典型的冰川漂砾（Glacial erratic）如果长时间包裹在冰川内部随之运动，边缘会被冰川磨蚀得圆润光滑；然而眼前的巨石却有着极为清晰锐利的直角边缘，且被搬运了近 200 英里（其可能源自罗布森山，Mount Robson）。这证明当年发生的洪水远比传统认为的仅局限于米苏拉湖（Lake Missoula）的规模要广袤得多。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 灾难性洪水理论的演变流程 accDescr: 展示从布雷茨的单次大洪水假说到米苏拉湖妥协方案，再到彗星撞击假说的科学范式变迁。 subgraph Bretz_Original["布雷茨初始假说（1920年代）"] A["地表野外证据：两周内暴涨暴落的超级大洪水"] --> B["学界围攻：'水源从何而来？'"] end subgraph Academic_Compromise["学术妥协方案（耗时约40年）"] B --> C["米苏拉冰川湖溃决假说"] C --> D["假设溃决反复发生80至90次<br/>以避开单次特大灾变理论"] end subgraph Modern_Synthesis["彗星撞击与现代新证据"] D --> E["新证据：新仙女木期彗星撞击理论"] E --> F["北美大冰盖大面积瞬间融化液化"] F --> G["重回单次超级大洪水的物理机制解释"] end ``` Graham Hancock 随即补充指出，虽然如今太平洋西北地区乃至冰盖南缘发生过超级大洪水已是学术共识，但在 20 世纪早期，任何关于灾变和洪水的想法都遭到地质学界的极力反对。美国伟大野外地质学家 J·哈兰·布雷茨（J Harlen Bretz）在 1920 年代率先记录了华盛顿州巨大洪水的证据，但因其主张存在灾变（cataclysm），立刻遭到了同行数十年的排挤与放逐。直到 1976 年，年近 96 岁的布雷茨才荣获美国地质学最高荣誉彭罗斯奖章（Penrose Medal）。Graham 讲述当时布雷茨极为讽刺地感叹：“‘我的敌人都死光了，所以我已经没有可以炫耀胜利的对象了。’”（“All my enemies are dead so I have no one left to gloat over that's what he said.”） - 布雷茨基于地质实地考察坚信，这是一场在两周左右时间里暴涨暴落的单次特大洪水。 - 面对学界反复质问“水从何而来”，布雷茨当年回应称：野外洪水证据无可辩驳，水到底从哪来留给其他人去算，他的职责是呈现地质事实。 - 经过近 40 年僵持，学界最终形成了一个妥协折中方案：声称洪水是由米苏拉冰川湖（Glacial Lake Missoula）发生 80 到 90 次周期性溃决造成的，试图以此抹消“两周内单次毁灭性大洪水”的灾变色彩。 - Graham 强调，彗星撞击假说完全能够填补布雷茨当年的空白：大面积北美大陆冰盖在彗星撞击瞬间剧烈液化融化，从而释放出空前绝后的超巨量洪流。 --- ### [01:48:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=6531s) 19 世纪地质插图与干瀑布的灭绝奇观 Randall 展示了一张出自 19 世纪地质学者路易·菲吉耶（Louis Figuier）著作的插图。在渐变论（Uniformitarianism）彻底驱逐灾变论（Catastrophism）之前，学者们曾推测西北欧冰原发生过灾难性溃退。插图中描绘了高耸的冰山载着巨型漂砾顺流冲垮整片森林的震撼场景，这与他们在北美野外观察到的冲刷证据完全吻合。随后话题转向 Graham 与 Randall 共同考察过的干瀑布（Dry Falls）。这是一处宽达 5 英里的灭绝白垩系瀑布遗迹，Randall 甚至笑谈此前考察时他们为近距离观察一块 18,000 吨重的玄武岩巨石而不得不翻过私人领地的警示牌。 ```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: 尼亚加拉瀑布与干瀑布参数对比 accDescr: 对比现存尼亚加拉瀑布与远古干瀑布在时间跨度、流量及悬崖规模上的巨大反差。 subgraph Niagara["现代尼亚加拉瀑布 (Niagara Falls)"] N1["演变时间：12,000+ 年河流冲刷"] N2["峰值流量：约 200,000 立方英尺/秒"] end subgraph DryFalls["远古干瀑布 (Dry Falls Cataract)"] D1["演变时间：两周超级洪水骤然成型"] D2["峰值流量：3亿至4亿立方英尺/秒<br/>（全地球所有河流总和的10-20倍）"] D3["悬崖落差：约 400 英尺<br/>洪水深度：漫过崖顶 400 英尺"] end ``` 谈及侵蚀机理时，Randall 指出流体在河道中央流速最快、侵蚀剧烈，两侧相对较慢，因此天然会形成马蹄形的陡崖凹室（Alcove）。现代尼亚加拉瀑布就是典型的马蹄瀑布，而华盛顿州大古力（Grand Coulee）的干瀑布则拥有六七个连续的巨型马蹄形凹室，规模之大令人瞠目结舌。 - 尼亚加拉瀑布是河流历经 12,000 多年持续侵蚀的产物，而干瀑布的整个庞大构造仅是两周大洪水剧烈冲刷的结果。 - 干瀑布的高度是尼亚加拉瀑布的 2.5 倍，悬崖峭壁高约 400 英尺。 - 尼亚加拉河的最大流量约为几十万立方英尺/秒，而掠过大古力的洪流流量估算高达 3 亿至 4 亿立方英尺/秒。 - 这一洪峰流量相当于当时全地球所有河流流量总和的 10 到 20 倍。 - 在洪峰期，水深甚至高出悬崖顶部 400 英尺，流速达每小时 60 至 70 英里。正如 Randall 所描述，置身当时根本看不到瀑布，而是一条宽达 10 英里、充斥着冰山、残骸与被连根拔起树木的浊流，瀑布形态仅在洪流消退末期才短暂显现。 --- ### [01:54:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=6858s) 峡谷地遗迹与主流地质学的盲区 Graham 极力建议所有听众亲自前往华盛顿州的大古力地区，亲眼看看大自然在地面上刻下的不可磨灭的伤痕。不仅是大古力，类似构造在华盛顿州还有壶穴瀑布（Potholes）、法国人古力（Frenchman Coulee）等多处同等规模的干涸瀑布。Randall 随即展示了犹他州峡谷地国家公园（Canyonlands National Park, Utah）的地质地貌，指出一旦掌握了巨型瀑布（Cataract）的侵蚀特征和形态学，就会发现犹他州那些被当作风蚀或渐变慢蚀景观的悬崖地貌，本质上也是超大规模灭绝瀑布的遗迹。 Randall 批判道，主流地质学界长久以来完全没有把目光投向灾变论，导致许多显而易见的灾难证据被选择性忽略： > “地质学家并没有把重点放在灾变论上；他们做的是为政府工作，为石油公司工作，他们对地表深处的天然气、石油和金钱更感兴趣。”（“Geologists haven't been focused on catastrophism. What they've been doing: they work for the government, they work for the oil companies. They're more interested in what's down below—the natural gas, the oil and stuff. Money.”） ### [01:55:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=6906s) 均变论与灾变论：地质学界对“大洪水”的科学避讳 格雷厄姆·汉考克（Graham Hancock）指出，地质学界之所以长期对灾变论退避三舍，根源在于这门学科的历史包袱。科学在确立自身地位的过程中，极力划清与宗教迷信的界限，而《圣经》中的大洪水故事在近代科学体系中彻底沦为了被摒弃的观念。因此，任何暗示古代发生过全球性大灾难的研究，都会被主流学界贴上倒退回宗教迷信的标签。汉考克直言，这种极度不幸的心态导致地质学家只要敢提出灾难性事件假说，就会立刻遭遇同行评议的阻力，因为同行们害怕被同行扣上“相信诺亚方舟大洪水”的帽子。 这种偏见直接造就了“均变论”（Uniformitarianism）与“灾变论”（Catastrophism）的长期对立，而占据支配地位的均变论信条本质上认定“今天世界的运作方式就是过去一成不变的样貌”。当乔·罗根（Joe Rogan）询问主流地质学如何解释犹他州那些庞大而奇特的地貌时，兰道尔·卡尔森（Randall Carlson）坦言自己翻遍了文献也没找到任何合理解释，主流学者往往只是耸耸肩发出“看它多漂亮”的感叹。汉考克对此总结道：“科学在本质上将自身定义为不同于宗教迷信的存在，因此我们在《圣经》中读到的‘大洪水’概念在科学中成了一个极其声名狼藉的观念。” ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 科学对灾变论的排斥机制 accDescr: 展示科学为与宗教迷信划清界限而坚持均变论，导致地质学家不敢提出灾变学说的逻辑链条。 subgraph ReligiousRoot ["历史根源与偏见"] A["《圣经》大洪水叙事"] -->|"被主流科学视为"| B["未经证实的宗教迷信"] B -->|"科学划界冲动"| C["彻底排斥古代全球灾变假说"] end subgraph AcademicDogma ["学术审查与教条"] C --> D["均变论成为地质学主流教条"] D -->|"假设地球演化模式"| E["以现今缓慢过程推演远古历史"] D -->|"同行舆论压力"| F["学者担忧被扣上‘附会诺亚’的帽子"] F --> G["拒绝正视异常灾难地质特征"] end ``` ### [01:56:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=6996s) 撞击暴雨、第四纪冰期与蒙大拿干溪的洪水沉积层 卡尔森解释说，犹他州的地貌虽然未必是冰川直接冲蚀的结果，但极有可能是彗星撞击劳伦泰德冰盖后引发的持久性特大暴雨所致。当巨型天体撞击数英里厚的冰层时，海量水体和泥浆被瞬间喷射至高层大气，随后化为连绵不绝的极端降雨倾盆而下。卡尔森进一步强调，更新世（Pleistocene）大约始于 260 万年前，期间经历了一二十次冰期与间冰期的交替。地质记录显示，冰期之间的转换绝非温和渐进的过程，而是极度剧烈的突变；即便规模不及 12,800 年前的新仙女木事件，类似强度的灾变如果发生在今天，“就算不会导致物种大灭绝，也绝对足以彻底切断现代文明的命脉”。 卡尔森随后展示了一张拍摄于蒙大拿州西部干溪（Dry Creek）砾石采掘坑的照片。地表之下暴露出的并非静水湖泊的细腻平整泥层，而是倾斜的巨型沉积层。地层学和沉积学规律表明，地层的倾斜方向直接指示了水流的前进方向。画面中的岩层是泥沙滚滚的汹涌洪流强行倒灌进支流峡谷、放下巨量冲积物后回退，随后又被下一波滔天巨浪反复冲刷层叠而成的。在一万两千到一万三千年的漫长岁月里，这些地质残骸上方长满了森林，现代人驾车在上面穿梭，却根本意识不到脚下踩着什么。 卡尔森强调，人们建造城市和公路的这片土地，下方正是上一个被狂暴洪水粉碎的世界的残骸。汉考克接着指出，世界各地的古老神话和民间传说之所以对那场灭世灾难念念不忘，正是因为毁灭前存在过一个高度发达的文明，尽管主流考古学家对此冷嘲热讽，但地质与考古证据正不断涌现。 - **更新世跨度与冰期周期**：最新测年认定更新世始于约 260 万年前，其间发生了数十次冰期与间冰期的剧烈交替。 - **水流流向判定标志**：干溪碎石坑剖面中倾斜的沉积层（交错层理）倾角朝向水流下游，证明当时有巨大的洪流反向倒灌进支流河谷。 ### [02:00:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=7202s) 权威的崩塌与大众求知欲的觉醒 面对这些震撼的地质剖面，罗根感叹这一切虽然惊人且难以置信，但逻辑上完全讲得通。汉考克认为，公众对这一课题的广泛接受反映了当下世界正在发生的积极变化：越来越多的人开始独立思考，不再对单一领域的权威盲目顺从。汉考克回顾了自己在 1995 年出版《上帝的指纹》（*Fingerprints of the Gods*）时的遭遇，彼时反对者最常用的武器就是“诉诸权威”——“某某博士或教授说这不可能，所以它就不可能”，当时大众往往接受这种权威裁决。 汉考克指出，过去二十年里这种对权威的奴性服从已经大幅瓦解，大众开始清醒地认识到政治家、大型企业乃至主流宗教系统长期以来所灌输的谎言。人们对过去的真相爆发了探索欲，因此新的灾变地质与失落文明证据正好落在了思想觉醒的沃土上。汉考克总结道：“正如我们对过去的认知图景正在发生改变一样，我们对自身是谁、我们在此究竟有何使命的认知图景，也同样在发生深刻的转变。” ### [02:01:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=7305s) 纪录片构想、《上帝的魔术师》与卡尔森的专题课程 罗根随即建议汉考克与卡尔森联手制作一部纪录片，因为这些地质地貌和古代遗迹极具视觉震撼力，比起阅读厚重的专著，普通大众更习惯躺在沙发上看 Netflix 来吸收新知。罗根甚至提议可以通过众筹来启动这一拍摄计划。汉考克表示非常愿意合作，并借此机会面向观众做出了自己作家生涯中的首次公开呼吁：他恳请支持其研究的读者购买刚刚出版的新书《上帝的魔术师》（*Magicians of the Gods*）。汉考克直言，主流考古学界极度希望这本书悄无声息地消失，主流报纸绝不会刊发书评，主流电视媒体也不会有任何专题报道，唯一能打破封锁的方式就是读者“用脚投票”。 汉考克深情地表示，没有读者的支持他一无所有，因此他在巡回演讲中总是愿意在活动结束后坐上两到三个小时，为每一位排队的读者签名交谈。罗根承诺会全力在社交网络上协助转发汉考克的全美巡回演讲日程。随后，卡尔森也顺势宣传了自己在“国际神圣几何”（Sacred Geometry International）网站上发布的长达四个半小时的专题演示《宇宙模式与灾变周期》（*Cosmic Patterns and Cycles of Catastrophe*）。该片包含了丰富的图形、视频剪辑与动态模拟，由引荐两人相识的卡梅伦·威尔希尔（Cameron Wilshire）制作，当时正值网站提供折扣优惠。汉考克在谈及对抗学术权威时坚定地说道：“对于那些看重并欣赏我的工作、认为我正在为世界做出有益贡献的人，请通过购买这本书来支持我的研究，因为这是对主流考古学竖起中指的最佳方式。” - **图书推广**：格雷厄姆·汉考克新书《上帝的魔术师》（*Magicians of the Gods*），可通过亚马逊及汉考克个人官网购买。 - **音视频专题**：兰道尔·卡尔森的音视频作品《宇宙模式与灾变周期》（*Cosmic Patterns and Cycles of Catastrophe*），时长约 4.5 小时，发布于 Sacred Geometry International 网站。 ### [02:04:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=7479s) 网站与纪录片构想：边缘学者的集结与结缘往事 Jamie 在屏幕上调出了 Randall Carlson 的网站 Sacred Geometry International（神圣几何国际）。页面上赫然推销着题为《宇宙模式与灾难周期》（Cosmic Patterns and Cycles of Catastrophe）的课程，并附带 33.33% 的折扣。Carlson 笑称关于这个折扣背后的数字命理学玄机得去问 Cameron，而优惠码恰好是“magicians”，显然是在致敬 Graham Hancock 的新书《上帝的魔术师》（Magicians of the Gods）。 看到两位学者在此汇聚，Joe Rogan 极力主张两人必须携手将这些研究拍成一部正式的纪录片。Hancock 借此向 Carlson 表达了崇高的敬意，强调 Carlson 在该领域举足轻重却行事低调，大众早就该认识到这位学者掌握的惊人知识及其无可替代的实地考察经验。Rogan 随后回忆起两人大约在十年前（2000年代初）初次相识的奇妙经历：那是在亚特兰大一家如今早已结业的喜剧俱乐部 Punch Line，演出结束后 Carlson 走上前与他攀谈，没有像一般观众那样寒暄客套或推荐当地餐馆，而是直接抛出大量关于全新世冰消期大洪水与宇宙撞击的数据。Rogan 直言那是他听过“最疯狂的演出后对话”，而 Carlson 当时也极为惊讶 Rogan 竟然能对这些非主流科学议题产生如此深切的共鸣。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 从亚特兰大剧场偶遇走向协同研究的脉络 accDescr: 展现从 Rogan 早期与 Carlson 相遇，到如今集合 Hancock、West 与 Schoch 等学者学术发现的递进过程。 subgraph Origin["缘起与传播平台"] A["亚特兰大 Punch Line 喜剧俱乐部<br/>Carlson 与 Rogan 首次交流全新世灾难数据"] --> B["Joe Rogan Experience 播客平台<br/>为非主流学术提供巨大发声空间"] end subgraph CorePioneers["关键先驱学者网络"] C["John Anthony West<br/>提出狮身人面像水蚀理论"] --> D["Robert Schoch<br/>波士顿大学地质学验证水蚀痕迹"] E["Robert Bauval<br/>猎户座相关理论与天文对齐"] F["Randall Carlson<br/>实地地质考察与宇宙周期研究"] G["Graham Hancock<br/>整合全球考古与神话断代"] end B --> CorePioneers CorePioneers --> H["聚焦节点：距今约 12,800 年的大灾难与失落文明"] ``` --- ### [02:06:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=7599s) 媒体影响力、失落的记忆与“患失忆症的文明” Hancock 对 Rogan 表达了深切感谢。他提到自己周游列国举办讲座时，全球各地都有观众走过来说是“Joe Rogan 让我们了解你的研究”。他指出，在当今媒体充斥着琐碎无聊内容的时代，许多拥有话语权的人都在白白浪费影响力，而 Rogan 却把巨大的平台力量用于探索争议性领域，将真正有深度的新认知传播到世界各地。Rogan 则谦虚地表示播客的发展并非预先策划，自己只是顺着好奇心探索，尽量“不挡自己的路”。 紧接着，他们梳理了为改写远古历史做出不可磨灭贡献的一众开创性学者： - **John Anthony West**：Rogan 称赞其纪录片《神奇的埃及》（Magical Egypt）是他看过的最伟大的 DVD 系列之一；Hancock 则称 West 是“世界级宝藏”，正是 West 彻底打开了他对古埃及神秘智慧的认知。 - **Robert Schoch**：波士顿大学的地质学教授。在 West 的引荐下实地考察了狮身人面像，顶着主流学界的巨大围攻与学术风险，勇敢指出狮身人面像围墙上的侵蚀形态属于典型的水蚀痕迹，而非风沙侵蚀。 - **Robert Bauval**：提出“猎户座相关理论”（Orion Correlation Theory），将古代遗迹的建造与远古星空对齐，其天文证据同样指向了距今 12,800 年前这一关键节点。 谈及拼凑远古历史全貌的顿悟时刻，Hancock 感叹人类正处于一种集体创伤后的病态之中。正如 Graham Hancock 所总结的那样：“我们是一个患了失忆症的文明，我们头部遭到重击，遗失了大量记忆；正如任何失忆症患者一样，内心深处总有一种遗失了什么的空虚感，而我们的整个物种都笼罩在那种挥之不去的残缺感中。” --- ### [02:11:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=7884s) 悬在头顶的子弹：近地小行星威胁与动能毁灭力 Carlson 话锋一转，指出回顾这场史前浩劫不仅关乎过去，更直接关系到人类未来的生存宿命。他准备快速展示从 1989 年开始追踪的近地天体档案；而 Hancock 随即补充了一个刚发生不久的惊人实例：就在 2015 年万圣节前后，一颗宽达半公里的彗星碎片与地球擦肩而过。令人不寒而栗的是，NASA 直到它飞掠地球的几周前（10 月 10 日）才发现它的存在。虽然该天体最终在相当于地月距离的外空通过，但对于浩瀚的太阳系与银河系尺度而言，这无异于子弹贴着头皮擦过。 更具警示意义的是其能量规模对比：1908 年造成大面积西伯利亚森林覆灭的通古斯大爆炸天体直径仅约 100 米，而这颗万圣节飞掠的天体体积至少是通古斯天体的 150 到 200 倍。Carlson 用弹道学做了一个直观的比喻：一颗.32 口径的弹头用手扔出去毫无杀伤力，但如果将其加速到每秒 1,000 英尺，就能造成致命创伤；而小行星和彗星碎片进入大气层的速度达到每小时 50,000 至 70,000 英里，相当于步枪子弹速度的十到二十倍。Carlson 指出，这种撞击释放的动能极其恐怖，正如 Randall Carlson 所言：“哪怕将冷战巅峰时期我们所有的核武储备全部拿出来在一瞬间同时引爆，其释放的威力也仅仅是那种撞击能量的一个微小零头。” - 2015 年万圣节飞掠地球的彗星碎片直径约为 0.5 公里（500 米）。 - NASA 于 2015 年 10 月 10 日才探测到该天体，距离其近距离掠过地球仅有数日预警时间。 - 通古斯天体直径仅约 100 米，而 0.5 公里级别天体的体积是其 150 至 200 倍。 - 近地天体突入大气层的运行速度高达每小时 50,000 至 70,000 英里（约合步枪子弹速度的 10 至 20 倍）。 ### [02:14:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=8045s) 近地天体的威胁与人类资源的错配 Graham Hancock 快速展示并梳理了天文学界对近地环境的最新评估数据。早在 2000 年 10 月的一份报告中，天文学家就指出当时对潜在危险小行星的估计至少低估了 20%，彼时推测环绕地球轨道的危险小行星在 750 到 900 颗之间。然而，如今这一估计已经飙升至大约 10 万颗具有摧毁地球潜力的交叉轨道天体（Earth-crossing objects）。令人担忧的是，NASA 至今仅识别出了其中的冰山一角。 Hancock 强调指出，他提出这一问题并非为了散播绝望与末日论，而是因为人类完全具备解决这一危机的能力。他言辞恳切地批评了当前文明在军备竞赛等荒谬事务上的资源浪费： > “It takes goodwill on the part of the human race to stop wasting money on stupid stupid pursuits, particularly warfare, and to apply that resource—those resources—to sweeping clean our cosmic environment.” —— Graham Hancock Joe Rogan 随即回应道，要让全人类产生这种大规模的注意力转移，几乎必须经历一场沉痛的灾难性事件来敲响警钟。虽然目前有包括 Queen 乐队吉他手 Brian May 等知名人士倡导的“世界小行星日”（World Asteroid Day），但在公众和政治层面上根本没有人将其当回事。 - **2000年10月评估**：估计有 750 至 900 颗潜在威胁小行星，当时已被认为低估了至少 20%。 - **当前最新估计**：约有 100,000 颗具有潜在摧毁力的天体处于与地球相交的轨道上。 - **监测现状**：NASA 仅编目并追踪了其中极小的一部分。 - **倡议活动**：Queen 乐队天体物理学博士兼吉他手 Brian May 发起的“世界小行星日”（World Asteroid Day）目前缺乏实质性的政治与资金支持。 --- ### [02:15:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=8158s) 人类的盲目乐观与近地撞击的“警钟效应” Joe Rogan 剖析了人性中根深蒂固的侥幸心理：人们总觉得自己能长生不老，事情永远不会变糟，心思全放在换一辆新款雷克萨斯轿车、买一块新手表或换一台新笔记本电脑上，就像烟民往往不患上癌症就不会戒烟一样。他设想如果一场大规模撞击袭击了中国，造成数百万人死亡，并引发全球核冬天、农作物绝收和饥荒，人类政客才会清醒过来坐下与俄罗斯谈判。 Graham Hancock 表示希望不需要如此极端的灾难，哪怕是重现一次 1908 年的通古斯大爆炸（Tunguska event）就足以唤醒文明。两人随后谈及 2013 年在俄罗斯车里雅宾斯克发生的流星空爆事件——由于俄罗斯普遍存在骗保和交通摩擦问题，大量车辆安装了行车记录仪（dashcams），这才让全世界清晰看到了陨石在空中解体坠落的画面。尽管那次事件仅仅是一个极小碎片且未造成直接死亡，但 Hancock 指出： > “I guarantee you a Tunguska event over a major inhabited area of the globe wiping out a million people, I can't imagine that that wouldn't have some kind of an effect on our attitude towards our vulnerability in the cosmos.” —— Graham Hancock 随后，Rogan 提议人类应该发起一场针对小行星的全面战争，取代目前劳民伤财的反恐战争。Randall Carlson 赞同并补充道，小行星不仅是致命威胁，更是巨大的资源宝库，蕴藏着铂族金属、碳氢化合物、水和各类贵金属；开发小行星拦截技术的同时，实际上也是在开启深空采矿与地外资源的全新工业时代。 --- ### [02:19:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=8366s) 小行星防御机制与视线盲区 Randall Carlson 与 Graham Hancock 探讨了具体的技术路径。Carlson 提到 2015 年万圣节期间掠过地球的小行星（2015 TB145），科学家在它飞越地球前短短几周才发现它。防御天体威胁并不需要好莱坞式的核爆方案——用核弹炸碎小行星只会把“单发子弹”变成致命的“散弹（buckshot）”，甚至造成不可控的轨道变轨。 目前科学界讨论了大约 10 种成熟的物理偏转技术。例如，可以通过改变小行星或彗星碎片一侧的反光率（例如对其进行涂色），利用太阳辐射压（雅科夫斯基效应）使其轨道发生微小偏移，将其推入安全轨道： ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Asteroid Deflection Comparison accDescr: 比较核爆方案与表面反光微调方案在应对小行星威胁时的不同结果与安全性 subgraph Trap["不可取方案：核武器炸裂"] A["近地威胁小行星"] -->|"发射核弹摧毁"| B["碎片化：散弹效应 (Buckshot)"] B --> C["不可控灾难轨道 / 大范围多点撞击"] end subgraph Solution["理想方案：微力推进与辐射干预"] D["探测与早期预警"] -->|"物理轻推 (Nudge) 或涂层变色"| E["改变表面反光率 (辐射压变化)"] E --> F["轨道微调并安全掠过地球"] end ``` Rogan 指出太空中来自三维方向的威胁防不胜防，尤其是从太阳方向袭来的天体。Carlson 证实，通古斯大爆炸天体正是隐藏在白天的金牛座流星雨（Taurid stream）中从太阳方向冲出，当年的目击者称其宛如“从太阳中吐出”或是“天空中升起的第二个太阳”。加之太阳自身的强光以及巨大引力导致的视觉遮蔽与弯曲，没有专门针对太阳视线方向的监测卫星，人类在天体进入大气层前几乎是彻底致盲的。 --- ### [02:21:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=8519s) 现代文明的极端脆弱性与幸存者假说 Graham Hancock 直言，人类作为一个物种必须告别孩童时代走向成熟。他提出一个令人不寒而栗的推演：如果遭遇 12,800 年前新仙女木期同等规模的天体撞击，现代文明将彻底毁灭。当代社会是一个高度专业化且极度脆弱的机械体系，依赖于“准时制供应链”（Just-in-Time supply chain）： > “I think the just-in-time principle is that we have two-day or three-day food supply in our cities. You interrupt that and you have a kind of The Walking Dead scenario within a week.” —— Graham Hancock 现代西方科技文明所展现的繁荣与强大只是一种虚幻的安全感。生活在都市中的绝大多数人早已丧失了最基本的生存技能，完全依赖于高度精密的社会分工协作网络。Hancock 断言，如果遭遇全球性灾难，真正能够幸存下来的绝不是坐在办公室里的现代人，而是那些至今仍掌握原始生存智慧、被现代文明边缘化的群体——比如南部非洲喀拉哈里沙漠（Kalahari）的狩猎采集者，或是亚马逊盆地深处的土著原住民。只有他们具备在废墟与恶劣自然中撑过浩劫的实际技能与心理韧性。 ### [02:23:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=8606s) 脆弱的数字文明与巨石“教科书” Graham Hancock 沉重地指出，他不希望一万年后那些狩猎采集者的后代只能模糊地回忆起一个曾能登月、能跨越半个地球即时通话的“失落魔法文明”，而这个最终因自身的狂妄与残暴而走向覆灭的文明，其实就是我们自己。Joe Rogan 也表达了相似的忧虑，他谈到纸质书籍正在逐渐消亡，所有东西都走向了数字化。然而，没有了操作系统、中央处理器（CPU）和软件，硬盘不过是一堆转瞬即逝的电子排列而已。一旦灾难降临，一千年后留下的塑料会降解殆尽，后代即便捡到光盘或硬盘，也根本无法理解或读取其中的内容。 面对人类记录载体的极度脆弱性，Hancock 提出，古人正是将巨石建筑作为一种能够穿越万年的“教科书”。除了以石为书，另一种跨越纪元保存信息的方式是将核心知识编织进神话故事，再将这些神话投射到夜空的恒星系统之中。只要后代仰望星空、讲述星座与神话故事，整个叙事体系和天文学知识就会代代相传。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 文明信息保存途径对比 accDescr: 对比现代数字存储与远古巨石及神话天文学的信息保存能力与耐久性。 subgraph Modern["现代数字文明（脆弱）"] A["数字数据 (硬盘/光盘)"] -->|"依赖软件与电力"| B["操作系统 / CPU 解码"] B -->|"千年后材料降解、无设备"| C["信息彻底灭失"] end subgraph Ancient["远古传承机制（持久）"] D["巨石建筑"] -->|"几何尺寸编码"| E["地理与天文常数（经久不坏）"] F["神话隐喻"] -->|"映射至恒星坐标"| G["代代口传的天球知识体系"] end ``` - Graham Hancock 总结当下的文明警示：“I just want to make sure that the descendants of those hunter gatherers 10,000 years in the future are not remembering faintly and vaguely a great Lost Civilization... which was destroyed because of its own arrogance and cruelty and that Lost Civilization of course would be us.” - 现代数字存储依赖精密且易损的基础设施，缺乏软硬件生态，所有数据仅相当于无法辨析的无意义电子。 --- ### [02:25:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=8736s) 吉萨大金字塔的天文与地球尺寸编码 Graham Hancock 解释，吉萨大金字塔（Great Pyramid of Giza）绝非仅仅是法老的坟墓，它以令人惊叹的数学精度编码了地球的真实物理尺寸。将大金字塔的底面周长乘以 43,200，就能得出地球的赤道周长；将大金字塔的高度乘以 43,200，便能精准得出地球的极半径。尽管主流埃及学家清楚这一数学对应关系，却常常将其轻描淡写为“纯属巧合”，并质疑为何偏偏是 43,200 这个数字。 Hancock 强调，43,200 绝非随意选取的数字，它广泛散布于全球古老神话中，是岁差运动的核心常数。地球自转轴摆动产生岁差，每 72 年在黄道带上移动 1 度，而 72 乘以 600 正好等于 43,200。换言之，建造者是以地球自身的运动节律作为比例尺，将这颗行星的尺寸凝固在巨石结构中。只要未来的文明具备基本的天文观测能力，便能毫不费力地解码这套隐藏在岩石里的地理与天文常数。 - **赤道周长编码**：大金字塔底座周长 × 43,200 = 地球赤道周长。 - **极半径编码**：大金字塔高度 × 43,200 = 地球极半径。 - **岁差常数推导**：72 年 / 度（岁差速率）× 600 = 43,200。 - Graham Hancock 赞叹这一设计巧思：“So what they've actually done is they've given us the dimensions of our planet on a scale defined by a motion of the planet itself and that in my view is incredibly clever way to pass information down to the Future.” --- ### [02:27:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=8822s) 金字塔的建造难度与意识转化空间 谈及大金字塔的工程难度，Joe Rogan 指出现代人常狂妄地宣称“我们今天也能造出来”。固然现代技术可以切割并制造出同等尺寸的巨石，但要将数百万块巨石在百米高空严丝合缝地对接、最终汇聚于顶端且没有任何微小偏角，需要不可思议的工程意志与精度。哪怕在底部或中途偏离哪怕几分之一英寸，最终搭出来的就会是一个扭曲的“开瓶器”（cork screw），而绝不会是完美对称的正棱锥。 Hancock 进一步谈到，大金字塔不仅是一座知识数据库，更是一台能够影响人类意识的多功能仪器。他分享了自己独自一人置身于所谓“国王室”（King's Chamber）内部的超现实体验。这个由纯花岗岩构建、悬于地面 300 英尺高空的封闭几何空间，具备独特的感官剥夺特性。当成群结队的游客散去、绝对的寂静笼罩下来时，冰冷的石壁仿佛开始散发出某种智慧，主动与人的意识展开对话；而一旦涌入数十人，这种深邃的交流便瞬间荡然无存。 - Joe Rogan 点明对齐公差的严苛：“You can't be off by a fraction of an inch otherwise you have a a cork screw instead of a pyramid.” - Graham Hancock 描述金字塔内的意识冲击：“As that silence descends you feel this Monument begin to speak to you it's almost like it's shy put 50 people in there and the dialogue goes away be in there alone listen to the silence and it starts to speak.” --- ### [02:29:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=8950s) 印尼加隆巴当（Gunung Padang）与失落的巽他大陆 随后，Hancock 将视线转向印尼爪哇岛万隆（Bandung）以西车程约三小时的加隆巴当（Gunung Padang）巨石遗址。此前学界普遍认为该遗址只是自然山丘顶上一处距今约 2,500 年的普通巨石堆。然而，印尼资深地质学家 Danny Hilman Natawidjaja 带领团队运用探地雷达（GPR）、地震层析成像（seismic tomography）以及深孔岩芯钻探展开综合探测，结果震撼了学界。 探测数据证实，加隆巴当整座山丘实际上是一座庞大的人工金字塔，内部至少蕴含三个大型空腔室，其中一个与吉萨大金字塔的国王室一样巨大。从钻探岩芯中提取的与人工修整石料共存的有机物，经放射性碳测年其年代可追溯至 20,000 年前——正处于末次盛冰期。Hancock 解释，两万年前的印尼并非群岛，而是与东南亚半岛连为一体的巨大陆块，地质学界称之为“巽他大陆”（Sundaland）。这块大陆在距今 12,800 年至 11,600 年之间的大海浸中沉入汪洋，而加隆巴当恰好坐落于未被淹没的高地上。正因这一惊人发现是由地质学家主导的，触怒了守旧的印尼主流考古学界，他们向印尼政府施压并迫使发掘工程暂时中止。Hancock 坚信，加隆巴当同哥贝克力石阵（Göbekli Tepe）一样，是冰河时代幸存者留下的“时间胶囊”。 - **地理位置**：印度尼西亚爪哇岛，万隆以西约 3 小时车程。 - **探测科学手段**：探地雷达（GPR）、地震断层扫描与地质钻孔取样。 - **测年数据**：深层有机质测年直指距今 20,000 年前（末次盛冰期）。 - **古地理背景**：昔日的巽他陆棚（Sunder land）在距今 12,800 至 11,600 年间被海平面上升吞没。 - Graham Hancock 评价该遗址的重要意义：“This is a 20,000 year old pyramid that's sitting in Indonesia and it's one of the most exciting breaking stories in archaeology and typically because the discovery work has been done by a geologist Indonesian archaeologists are wanting the whole work stopped.” ### [02:32:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=9163s) 印尼巴东山（Gunung Padang）与被掩埋的万年巨石文明 三人看着屏幕上的巴东山（Gunung Padang）影像展开讨论。Joe Rogan 直言从外表看，这只是一座覆盖着大量石块的山丘。Graham Hancock 解释道，表面上这些石块是已知巨石遗址的一部分，其年代被准确测定在距今约 2,500 年前。但这些石头并不是普通的岩石，而是柱状玄武岩（columnar basalt）——这种岩石在自然冷却过程中会自然形成垂直的规则多边形柱体，例如爱尔兰著名的“巨人之路”（Giant's Causeway）。正因如此，当人们看到这些柱状玄武岩被人工打碎成块、并水平平铺排列在一起时，可以百分之百断定这是人类文明施工的痕迹。 然而，地表可见的部分只是冰山一角。通过探地雷达（GPR）和深层岩芯钻探揭示出的地下结构，才是真正令人震惊的地方。主流考古学界长期以来完全忽视了地下层，而要找回人类失去的历史，印度尼西亚正是必须深挖的关键节点。Hancock 强调，2,500 年前的人之所以在山顶建造建筑，是因为他们拥有古老的传承记忆，知道这里自古就是圣地。在印尼语中，“Gunung Padang”表面意思是“山地之原”（Mountain Field）；但在当地巽他语（Sundanese）中，它的真正含义是“启蒙之山”（Mountain of Enlightenment），暗示它与某种失落的古老知识体系直接挂钩。 Joe Rogan 将这一发现与埃及古王国时期的建筑模式相比较：后人往往在更古老的结构之上修建新结构，随着黄沙越挖越深，会发现更古老、技术迥异的建造方式。Hancock 完全赞同这个类比，并指出巴东山深处的地基至少可以追溯到 20,000 年前。当屏幕切换到一张艺术家还原巴东山原始宏伟面貌的画作时，Hancock 评价道：“那完全是艺术家的想象还原，我不太看重，那几乎算是一种错误信息，我们必须关注真实的事物。”（“That's an absolute artist rendition which I don't value. It almost takes the form of misinformation. We need to be looking at the real thing.”）但毫无疑问，两万年前如果这里存在如此庞大的巨石建筑，就无可辩驳地证明了史前先进文明的存在，而该地区正是大约 12,800 年前全球性大洪水的重灾区。 - **地表玄武岩特征**：天然呈垂直柱状生长，被人类开采并水平码放即证明是人造巨石工程。 - **命名学渊源**：巽他语中的 Gunung Padang 直译为“启蒙之山”，揭示其古老灵性与知识传承背景。 - **年代跨度**：表层遗址距今约 2,500 年，而雷达探测与钻探显示的地下深层结构可追溯至 20,000 年前。 --- ### [02:35:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=9356s) 多巴超级火山爆发、人类种群瓶颈与现代记忆的衰退 随着对印尼史前灾难的挖掘，讨论转向了距今约 70,000 年前的多巴超级火山（Toba supervolcano）爆发。那场惊天动地的地质灾害几乎彻底摧毁了全球生态，引发核冬天式的气候剧变，摧毁了植被与动物种群，导致全人类人口骤降至仅剩约 2,000 名个体。Joe Rogan 开玩笑说，2,000 人也就是自己办一场不错的小剧场单口喜剧演出的人数，想象一下全场观众要背负起重新繁衍地球人类的重担。Graham Hancock 感慨道：“有时候我们的物种命悬一线。”（“Sometimes our species hangs by a thread.”） 这种灾难并非外来小行星撞击，而是地球本身自身的“打嗝”与反刍。从 70,000 年前的多巴火山爆发，到 12,800 年前的新仙女木事件，人类在这一连串周期性的灭顶之灾中反复穿梭，历史不断被无情重置。对比过去，三人感叹现代人自大傲慢地将一切寄托于硬盘、U 盘、电脑和手机，结果导致个体记忆力全面退化。Joe Rogan 提到自己现在连身边人的电话号码都记不住几个，人类再也不像古人那样依靠强大的口头记忆能力，也没有用任何能抵抗大灾难的载体去记录文明。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 史前灾难与文明断代流转 accDescr: 展示从多巴超级火山到新仙女木期大灾难对人类繁衍和知识传承的冲击 subgraph Disasters ["地质浩劫周期"] Toba["70,000 年前：多巴火山爆发<br/>（核冬天，人口骤减至约 2,000 人）"] IceAge["20,000 年前：末次盛冰期<br/>（巴东山底层巨石建筑成型）"] YDImpact["12,800 年前：新仙女木事件<br/>（全球大洪水与大陆沉降）"] end subgraph Transmission ["知识与记忆载体"] Oral["古代口述与象征符号体系<br/>（超强口脑记忆、跨灾难代际留存）"] Digital["现代脆弱数字介质<br/>（硬盘、闪存、记忆力完全退化）"] end Toba --> IceAge IceAge --> YDImpact YDImpact --> Oral Oral -.->|"现代科技傲慢取代"| Digital ``` --- ### [02:37:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=9455s) 共济会的口述记忆传承、符号隐喻与外界误解 针对记忆力的丧失，Randall Carlson 顺势引出了共济会（Freemasonry）的知识传承体系。Carlson 解释说，共济会保留了一套至少从中世纪流传至今的庞大象征符号体系。现今活跃的石匠会员如果想晋升为石匠大师（Master Mason），必须凭借大脑死记硬背下海量的信息和仪式文本。尽管仪式里明确交代了要理解这些象征就必须掌握天文学和几何学，但大多数现代会员其实根本不解其背后的深意。尽管如此，共济会所践行的正是古老的口述传统（oral tradition）——能够在脑中精确复述长达数小时的文本内容。 对于互联网上泛滥的共济会阴谋论，Graham Hancock 澄清了自己的立场。他提到经常有人在 Facebook 上像质问一样指责他是共济会员，他严肃声明：“首先，我不是共济会员，我从未加入过共济会，而且我永远也不会成为共济会员，因为我不是一个随波逐流加入组织的人。”（“Well, first off I'm not a Freemason. I've never been a Freemason and I never will be a Freemason because I'm not a joiner. I don't join clubs.”）Hancock 认为自己的本职工作是写书，一旦加入特定俱乐部就会丧失客观独立性。虽然他曾受邀在共济会分会做演讲并很乐意与他们交流，但他坚决否认所谓的“全球统治阴谋论”。在他看来，这套体系远比肤浅的阴谋论更加复杂和深刻，它是一套躲过历史雷达、得以跨越灾难生存下来的古老思想载体。Joe Rogan 和 Hancock 还打趣道，在英国，共济会很大程度上就是个男人们聚在一起喝啤酒的俱乐部，尽管 Carlson 补充说美国的分会会所内部是明令禁止饮酒的，但散会后大家同样会开怀畅饮。 --- ### [02:40:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=9615s) 美元金字塔符号、何露斯之眼与金合欢树中的二甲基色胺（DMT） 话题随后转向了日常生活中最神秘的符号系统——一美元纸币背面顶端带有“全视之眼”的金字塔。Joe Rogan 感慨，从美元符号到华盛顿特区的城市规划、五角大楼的方位，人们总喜欢把它们同共济会统治世界的阴谋绑在一起。Rogan 吐槽道，真希望能穿越回去问问设计一美元纸币的人，为什么不老老实实印上“1 Dollar”和一个头像，非要在金字塔顶端画一只悬浮的眼睛。 Graham Hancock 与 Carlson 指出，这些符号具有极深远的古代根源，其本质与古埃及文明完全同源。美元上的独眼与古埃及的“荷鲁斯之眼”（Eye of Horus）如出一辙： - **解剖学呼应**：Joe Rogan 提出，荷鲁斯之眼的内部结构从侧面横截面看，与人类大脑中的松果体（pineal gland）轮廓惊人一致，Hancock 对此表示高度认可。 - **古埃及生命之树与致幻剂**：Hancock 进一步揭示，古埃及神话中的“生命之树”正是尼罗金合欢（*Acacia nilotica*），而这种树的树皮中富含极高浓度的致幻物质 DMT（二甲基色胺）。 - **燃烧荆棘的神圣启示**：现代耶路撒冷学者也将圣经中摩西见到的“燃烧的荆棘”（the burning bush）与富含 DMT 的金合欢树联系起来。上帝以燃烧荆棘的形式显现，实际上正是摄入植物性致幻物质后所获得的通灵体验与神圣神启。 ### [02:42:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=9726s) 共济会图像中的“时间之父”、金合欢与彗星象征 讨论从相思树（金合欢）富含 DMT（二甲基色胺）的特质切入。Joe Rogan 指出，任何尝试过 DMT 的人都会深知那是多么深刻且能改变人生的体验，那种状态下人会强烈感觉到自己正与某种神圣实体相连接。随后制作人 Jamie 在屏幕上调出一张典型的共济会象征图画。Joe Rogan 看着图像开玩笑说这画面看起来有点诡异，像一个老头正在给姑娘理发。Randall Carlson 随即解释了画中层层叠加的象征符号：画中的老者是“时间之父”（Father Time），他背生双翼，手持长柄镰刀（sickle），旁边放置着沙漏。至于长出翅膀的寓意，正是源于俗语“时光飞逝”（Time flies）。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 共济会象征符号隐喻图解 accDescr: 展示老者时间之父、哭泣少女、断柱与金合欢在灾难与文明复兴中的象征对应关系 subgraph S1["天灾象征"] A["长柄镰刀 / 长发"] --> B["彗星撞击灾难"] C["时间之父与沙漏"] --> D["毁灭周期与时光流逝"] end subgraph S2["文明与复兴"] E["断裂的石柱"] --> F["失落文明的摧毁"] G["哭泣少女与炼金容器"] --> H["悲悼文明 / 物质转化"] I["金合欢枝条"] --> J["死而复生 / 文明浴火重生"] end B --> F H --> J ``` Randall Carlson 进一步剖析了更为隐秘的天文隐喻。镰刀实际上是彗星（comet）的象征；“comet”一词源自拉丁语 *coma*（或希腊语 *kome*），本意即为“长发”，古人仰望夜空时将彗星拖曳的尾巴视作星辰的长发，而图画中老者的须发也暗合这一彗发意象。画面中的少女右手执一枝相思树（金合欢，Acacia），左手托着一个用于炼金术转化的容器（ciborium），正对着断柱上的书卷垂泪。Randall Carlson 解释，相思树在共济会寓言中象征着“建筑大师”（Master Builder）的死亡与复活。Graham Hancock 补充指出，这种死而复生的模式最终可追溯到古埃及的奥西里斯（Osiris）神话及历史上所有的复活之神，本质上是人类文明死而复生的隐喻。少女所哀悼的断柱正是被彗星摧毁的失落史前文明，而金合欢则预示着文明如同不死鸟般从灰烬中重生。 - 拉丁词源“coma”意为长发，彗星因此常被称为“长发星”（long-haired star）。 - 相思树（金合欢）在共济会仪式与传说中对应建筑大师的殒落与被唤醒，象征秩序与文明的重建。 - 画面中少女左手所持器皿源自炼金术传统，象征在封闭容器中发生质变，讨论者推测这可能隐喻了提炼植物活性物质的过程。 - “Once you begin to understand the symbolism of this, you can begin to read it just like a book or a manuscript almost.” —— Randall Carlson 强调一旦掌握了这套图像密码，就能像阅读手稿一样读懂古老图画中的灾变历史。 ### [02:46:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=9964s) 描绘天灾的地毯：昴宿星团、金牛座与古代致幻剂 Randall Carlson 展示了一幅 19 世纪的共济会地毯（Masonic carpet/tracing board），上面密密麻麻绘满了古代天文学与大灾难的密码。画面右上角是一颗清晰的彗星，左侧则是新月与代表昴宿星团（Pleiades）的七颗星。昴宿星团位于金牛座（Taurus）内，而金牛座流星雨（Taurid meteor shower）的辐射点几乎正中昴宿星团。Graham Hancock 强调，在法国拉斯科洞窟（Lascaux）距今 1.7 万年的“公牛大厅”壁画中，古人就已准确在公牛肩部标出了昴宿星团，这无可辩驳地证明远古人类早已掌握了黄道十二宫的天文知识。地毯下方还绘制了象征大洪水的方舟，以及棺木中生长出相思树的图案，再度强化了死亡与重生的母题。 关于远古人类对 DMT 的提取与摄入，Graham Hancock 指出科学界与学术界长期以来严重低估了致幻植物在人类文化演进中的核心作用。当 Joe Rogan 询问古埃及是否存在吸食 DMT 的实际证据时，Graham Hancock 回应称，埃及壁画中多次出现人物手持烟斗状器具的场景，加之尼罗河相思树（*Acacia nilotica*）富含 DMT，且古埃及人拥有极高超的化学提取技艺——“化学”（chemistry）一词本身就源于古埃及的古称“克麦特”（Kemet，意为黑土地）。此外，还有描绘曼陀罗花（datura）放射光芒注入启蒙修行者眉心（第三只眼）的神秘图景。 - 拉斯科洞窟壁画绘制于约 17,000 年前，公牛肩上的星点明确对应金牛座中的昴宿星团。 - 英文“chemistry”（化学）源自古埃及自称“Kemet”（黑土之地）。 - 金牛座流星雨的辐射点与昴宿星团在视觉天球上高度重合，频繁出现在各种大灾难象征美术中。 - “Anybody who argues that there was no ancient knowledge of the zodiacal constellations, go to Lascaux and you'll realize there was.” —— Graham Hancock 明确驳斥了认为古人不懂黄道星座划分的历史偏见。 ### [02:49:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=10157s) 蜂巢意象、双彗星轨迹与大地之心 Jamie 在屏幕上切换出另一幅共济会挂毯，画面左下角赫然出现了一个反复出现的标志性图案——蜂巢（beehive）。Joe Rogan 敏锐地提问蜂巢是否单纯象征农业与养蜂技术。Graham Hancock 提示，在古埃及，蜜蜂是王权的崇高象征，在卡纳克神庙（Temple of Karnak）各处均可看到蜜蜂雕刻。Joe Rogan 由此联想到当下的生态危机：现代人类滥用杀虫剂、农药，加上手机信号、Wi-Fi 与复杂的无线电波干扰了蜜蜂的通讯和导航，导致全球蜜蜂种群面临崩溃危机；古代文明将蜜蜂置于文化核心地位，显然绝非随意之举。 Randall Carlson 解析道，共济会浅层通俗的解释往往将蜜蜂归结为“勤劳与敬业”（industry）的象征，但从几何学与建筑学深层审视，蜂巢具有几乎所有已知结构中最高的“容积对重量比”，蕴含着惊人的数学与空间智慧。他进一步引导众人观察图画上方的核心天文异象：画面上方绘制着双生彗星（twin comets），两条彗尾清晰地背离太阳伸展。Randall Carlson 指出，彗星的彗尾受太阳风影响永远背向太阳，绝非像船只尾迹那样拖在后方。在该图构图中，太阳居中，双彗尾反向发散；画中的“心脏”在秘传符号体系中代表地球，而“利剑”则是彗星撞击的另一种常见化身。这一切精巧的图案编排，都在无声地记录着曾降临地球并被当代文明彻底遗忘的远古浩劫。 - 蜂巢在建筑力学上实现了最大容积与极低自重的极致平衡。 - 彗星尾部的物理特征是永远背向太阳辐射方向，古代画师准确捕捉并描绘了这一天文物理现象。 - 符号学映射：在相关秘传图像学中，“心脏”象征受创的地球，“利剑”象征刺向大地的彗星。 - “You know that comets, their tails are always pointing away from the sun; they're not like the wake of a boat, they're pointing away from the sun.” —— Randall Carlson 指出古老画作准确遵循了彗尾背离太阳的天文物理事实，证明其创作者拥有严谨的观测认识。 ### [02:51:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=10306s) 人类的精神创伤、重拾记忆与对大麻关系的转变 Graham Hancock 沉痛地反思了整个人类物种当前的心理困境，指出人类目前处于一种极其支离破碎的状态，全世界都被仇恨、恐惧与猜忌的阴霾所笼罩。人们被人为地割裂、对立，但归根结底大家都是兄弟姐妹，人类迫切需要找回被遗忘的远古记忆才能走向未来。话锋一转，Hancock 特别感谢 Joe Rogan 在 2014 年 9 月两人上一次长谈时“分了一支烟给他抽”（smoking me up），从而打破了他长达三年的大麻戒断期。Rogan 笑着表示 Hancock 看起来非常健康，大麻根本不是问题。Hancock 则坦言，这次回归彻底重塑了他与这种“神奇草药”之间的关系，如今他不再对它产生心理依赖或病态执念：“如果手头有，我就享受它；如果没有，我同样能享受生活。” Rogan 随即分享了一个故事：他有一位兼职脱口秀演员的戒毒辅导员朋友 Court McCown，前一天晚上刚跟他聊过一个案例。McCown 曾遇到一个在诊所里疯狂吸食海量大麻的年轻患者，McCown 此前甚至从没见过所谓的大麻成瘾者。随着沟通深入，McCown 意识到问题根本不在于大麻本身，而是这名年轻人背负着严重的心理创伤，童年经历极度凄惨，大麻只是他用来填补内心痛苦与自我救赎的工具。Hancock 赞同地指出，成瘾从来不是物质本身的问题，它没有生理成瘾性；如果不是大麻，那个孩子也会找其他东西来麻痹自己。 - Hancock 强调人类在心理上被虚假地割裂，必须恢复深层记忆才能打破全球仇恨与偏见的迷雾。 - Hancock 澄清自己已经告别了依赖性吸食模式，对待大麻的心态变得自由而平和。 - Rogan 与 McCown 的共识是：药物滥用背后几乎全是严重的童年创伤和未解的心灵剧痛在作祟。 --- ### [02:53:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=10432s) 触底反弹、感官剥夺水箱与科罗拉多合法化的胜利 面对内心的混乱与下滑螺旋，Rogan 谈到人人都可能走入偏执与疯狂，而“触底”（hitting rock bottom）往往是迫使一个人停下失控惯性、重整旗鼓的契机。Rogan 表示自己重整精神与反思人生的终极避风港就是感官剥夺漂浮箱（Sensory Deprivation Tanks）。Hancock 连声赞同并感谢 Rogan 将他引入这一领域，两人对从 1960 年代 John C. Lilly 发明 Samadhi 漂浮箱，再到现代 Crash 的 Float Lab 以及奥斯汀 Zero Gravity 等致力于完善过滤技术与隔绝系统的从业者深表敬意。Hancock 透露自己去过 Crash 的漂浮中心体验棒极了，正认真考虑在自己家里也装一台；Rogan 建议搭配大麻食品（edibles）一同使用，Hancock 确认那种结合会带来“极其强烈的迷幻体验”。 随后，讨论转向美国如火如荼的大麻合法化浪潮。Hancock 盛赞华盛顿州、俄勒冈州、阿拉斯加州和科罗拉多州的人民勇敢地向联邦权威竖起中指，行使成年人决定自身肉体与意识的权利。Hancock 即将在 12 月初前往西雅图、波特兰、丹佛和博尔德进行新书巡回宣传，对当地充满自由的气息期待不已。Rogan 补充指出，丹佛的合法大麻税收已经彻底打破了原本的财务预期，甚至首次超过了酒精税收。在全州到处是酒吧、酒庄和餐厅的情况下，大麻税收反超酒精堪称惊人；而且酒精产业并未受损，暴力犯罪与酒驾事故反而降到了几十年来的最低水平，房地产价格也在上涨。 “科罗拉多正在向全世界证明，禁毒战争的皇帝根本没有穿衣服。” Graham Hancock 毫不留情地批判道：“毒品战争从头到尾就是一场狗屁，是对成年人掌控自身肉体与意识权利的荒谬侵犯。” - Hancock 指出，英国各郡（如约克郡或诺森伯兰郡）绝不可能在伦敦中央政府反对的情况下擅自宣布大麻合法化，这种州权反抗联邦的突破“唯有在美国才可能发生”。 - Rogan 指出专家与政客长期向公众兜售大麻有害的谎言，一旦聘请专家审查出的真实数据不符合官方意图，政客们便将其彻底掩埋。 - 两人一致认为大麻合法化真正的内核不是为了寻欢作乐，而是捍卫成年人对其肉体、健康与意识的基本人权。 --- ### [02:58:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=10696s) 荒野地貌、致幻剂视界与重拾自然的灵魂 Randall Carlson 此时坦承，自己的全部地质探索与灾变假说，最初的源头正是几十年前他在美国西部峡谷露营时的意识扩展体验。当时他在荒野中借由致幻体验凝视眼前的山川地貌，内心强烈地意识到：“这里正在发生着什么，这里有一段故事正渴望被诉说。” Carlson 认为致幻物质几乎赋予了人们一种在精神上“时间旅行”的潜力，能够用前所未有的全新视角去审视远古地貌。Rogan 提及 Carlson 上次作客节目时提过的经历，Carlson 证实自己年轻时主要借助麦角酸二乙酰胺（LSD）和佩奥特掌（Peyote），背着帐篷在明尼苏达一路延伸至太平洋沿岸的西北部高山与荒原中风餐露宿数月之久。 Carlson 总结道，如果说 Rogan 钟爱的感官剥夺箱是一种强有力的“向内探索”，那么在野外致幻状态下仰望星空、凝视大地就是一种深度的“向外探索”——它让人顿悟一座山丘绝不仅仅是一座山丘，其背后蕴含着塑造这颗星球的宏伟地质过程。Hancock 随之深入探讨了现代技术文明的致命盲点：现代人把大自然彻底视作无生命的死物，狂妄地认为人类是宇宙中唯一的意识存在，断然拒绝承认自然界本身可能拥有高度意识与智慧。 “在我看来，致幻剂正是大自然在对我们说话的方式，尤其是在我们封闭心灵、自我封锁、将灵魂从宇宙中剥离并将其沦为一个庞大机器的时刻——致幻剂挺身而出，回敬我们说：‘等等，你们这群猴子根本什么都不懂。’” Graham Hancock 尖锐地总结道。 ```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: 致幻觉知与现代技术世界观的碰撞 accDescr: 对比现代技术世界观对自然的物化与致幻剂引导的内外探索视角 subgraph TechWorld["现代技术世界观的盲区"] A["将自然视作冰冷、死寂的物质机器"] --> B["自认人类是宇宙唯一的意识主体"] B --> C["封闭心灵，否认大自然的智慧"] end subgraph PsychedelicAwareness["致幻体验与自然的连接"] D["感官剥夺箱（向内深潜）<br/>与荒野漫游（向外凝视）"] E["破除认知局限与固有偏见"] F["领悟地貌背后的宏大灾变历程<br/>感知万物皆有灵与自然智慧"] D --> E --> F end C -.->|"致幻剂打破机器论迷障<br/>'大自然在向人类喊话'"| F ``` ### [03:00:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=10841s) 节目收尾与联系方式分享 不知不觉间，整整三个小时的对谈已经走到了尾声。Joe Rogan 惊叹时间过得飞快，直言：“那三个小时感觉就像才过了二十分钟（it seems like 20 minutes）”，而实际上对谈时间甚至已经略微超时。随后，Joe 借此机会向两位嘉宾表达了由衷的感谢，并向听众大力推荐 Graham Hancock 的新书《上帝的魔法师》（*Magicians of the Gods*），提醒大家现在就可以在亚马逊（Amazon）上购买。Graham 也同步确认了自己的个人官方网站为 grahamhancock.com。 在确认社交媒体联系方式时，几人核对了 Randall Carlson 与 Sacred Geometry International 的相关账号。经过现场核实，Randall 的 Twitter 账号为 `@SacredGeoInt`。Graham Hancock 则顺带吐槽了自己的账号设置，指出自己的 Twitter 账号名在名字与姓氏之间带有一个“恼人的双下划线”。Joe Rogan 随即安抚听众，表示如果找不到也不用担心，只要前往他的 Twitter 主页，就能在关于本期节目的推文中轻松找到两位嘉宾的官方推特链接。 - Graham Hancock 的新作《上帝的魔法师》（*Magicians of the Gods*）已在 Amazon 上架销售，其个人官网为 grahamhancock.com。 - Randall Carlson 的研究组织 Sacred Geometry International 对应的 Twitter 账号核实为 `@SacredGeoInt`。 - Graham Hancock 的 Twitter 账号名称中间包含两个连续的下划线（double underscore）。 ### [03:01:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8&t=10890s) 约定再聚与节目落幕 在节目的最后关头，Joe Rogan 意犹未尽地提议未来再度聚首，询问两人：“我们能再录一次吗？（Can we do this again?）”Graham Hancock 与 Randall Carlson 均毫不犹豫地欣然答应。Graham 更是干脆利落地回应道：“绝对没问题，我完全赞成（Absolutely, I'm all for it.）。”Joe 提议大家几个月后再组织一场深度对谈，大家都认为这是个绝妙的主意。 在道别之际，Randall Carlson 还特别对 Joe 提到，希望未来能带他亲自到实地去走一走看一看。伴随着欢快的片尾音乐和互道感谢，这期长达三小时、涵盖古老文明、地质灾变以及彗星撞击理论的对谈正式落下帷幕。 - 嘉宾与主持人约定在接下来的几个月内再次聚首录制节目。 - Randall Carlson 表达了未来想带 Joe Rogan 亲自去实地进行地质与古迹考察的意愿。 ## Video description Graham Hancock is an English author and journalist, well known for books such as "Fingerprints Of The Gods" & his new book "Magicians of the Gods" is available now. Randall Carlson is a master builder and architectural designer, teacher, geometrician, geomythologist, geological explorer and renegade scholar. [Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDejwCGdUV8)

[0:01] I have been looking forward to this [0:02] podcast for a long time gentlemen this [0:05] is uh about as cool podcast for me as a [0:08] fan this is like one of my favorite ones [0:11] because Randall Carlson and Graham ha [0:13] Hancock together and your new book [0:15] magicians of the Gods is it out [0:17] officially everywhere now it's uh [0:19] published on the 10th of November [0:21] fantastic all over the us all over the [0:23] US and uh Randall you guys together is [0:26] so exciting to me because uh I know you [0:29] guys spent a lot of time together and [0:30] you were working together on just this [0:33] current project we did a fantastic [0:35] research trip across the channel [0:37] scablands of Washington state which [0:39] Randall has been walking the walk on for [0:41] decades and he just showed me the [0:43] absolute irrefutable evidence of [0:45] cataclysmic flooding in that in that [0:48] area and it plays a very important part [0:50] in the book uh North America was the [0:52] epicenter of a global cataclysm between [0:54] 12,800 and 11,600 years ago and when you [0:58] see it through Randall's eyes you get it [1:01] immediately this this whole subject and [1:03] you know since you've been on my podcast [1:06] and you've been on the podcast is [1:07] something that comes up I mean I'm not [1:09] kidding four or five times a week [1:11] someone will grab me and ask me when is [1:14] Graham coming back on again when's [1:15] Randall coming back and when I tell [1:17] people that you guys are coming on [1:18] together the people start freaking out [1:20] so you know we've been saying before [1:22] this that people are taking time off [1:23] work they're they're having little [1:25] viewing parties so to you people out [1:28] there we're just as excited as you are [1:30] so um tell me what's been going on so [1:33] tell me the Washington State thing tell [1:35] me what you guys saw and and what [1:38] picture evidence and and what was [1:40] revealed I'm going to pass that one to [1:42] Randall first off [1:45] um well we uh were basically traveling [1:49] what we did was we traveled from [1:50] Portland to the Twin Cities and what we [1:53] did was essentially followed the [1:54] southern margin of the great ice sheet [1:57] for the most part and what we were [1:59] looking at was this evidence that the [2:00] whole ice sheet had undergone this [2:03] massive catastrophic sudden meltdown and [2:07] basically what we could what we saw in [2:09] the landscape was evidence that was [2:12] Oceanic level currents flowing off the [2:15] ice sheets in fact the the um the [2:18] geologists that have been looking at [2:20] this use a term called sperr which was [2:24] originally uh contrived to um and it's [2:28] it's a uh a million cub [2:30] met per second and they originally came [2:33] up with it to talk about ocean currents [2:35] like the Gulf Stream and so on um not [2:38] realizing that down the road it was [2:40] actually going to be applied to currents [2:42] that were flowing over the land um but [2:44] that's what we were looking at was spell [2:46] that word s it's it's named after the uh [2:50] the scientists that first uh came up [2:52] with the the concept It's s v r d r u p [2:57] sper drop it's 100 Mill million I'm I'm [3:00] sorry a million cubic feet cubic meters [3:04] per second um whoa which is very [3:08] difficult to even Envision but when you [3:09] see it on the landscape I mean for [3:11] example there's a place called The Kamas [3:13] Prairie that rall took me to where you [3:15] see these kind of ripples in the ground [3:17] and they look a little bit like current [3:19] ripples on the beach you know but [3:21] actually they are current ripples but [3:23] they're 50 ft high and hundreds and [3:25] hundreds of feet long and there that [3:27] receding flood left those ripples on on [3:30] that on that landscape then above the [3:32] town of wachi there's a gigantic Boulder [3:35] which didn't come from wachi it weighs [3:36] 18,000 tons and it got there in an [3:40] iceberg the size of an oil tanker which [3:42] grounded against that side of the valley [3:44] the flood waters receded the iceberg [3:47] melted away and it left this humongous [3:49] Boulder there and actually there's [3:50] thousands of them thousands of these [3:52] gigantic Boulders just scattered across [3:54] the landscape of the Pacific Northwest [3:55] Northwest and it all speaks of this [3:58] cataclysmic horrendous this humongous [4:00] flood that happened 12,800 years ago [4:03] 18,000 tons these you you just threw out [4:06] some giant numbers that the the meters [4:09] per second and the 18,000 18,000 tons is [4:12] a ton is 2,000 so 18,000 tons is 18,000 [4:16] 2000s so it's 36 million yeah if you [4:19] want I can pull up some en that is yeah [4:21] something of that order let's just say [4:23] really [ __ ] big I mean an enormous an [4:26] enormous thing and the fact is if there [4:27] was just one it would be spectacular but [4:29] there's thousands of them and and [4:31] they're all just washed away by this so [4:33] when the when the ice caps suddenly [4:35] melted down and we know now that that [4:37] happened because of the impact of [4:38] several fragments of of a giant Comet [4:40] back 12,800 years ago it released a huge [4:43] flood of meltwater and that meltwater [4:45] carried it was jostling with icebergs [4:47] huge icebergs and many of these icebergs [4:49] had had rocks in chained within them as [4:52] Glacier glacial ice moves it snatches up [4:54] and enchains rock and keeps it inside [4:57] there's a name for them they're called [4:58] glacial erratics and so they're in these [5:00] icebergs and the icebergs are JL against [5:02] each other and the flood has ripped up [5:04] whole Forest by its roots and there's [5:05] mud and there's rubble and it's rumbling [5:07] and it's and you see it all on the [5:09] landscape up there and this is all [5:11] carbon dated to this time period the [5:13] dating is very secure very wow oh my God [5:17] if we look here at the image what I'm [5:19] should now this is not from the [5:21] catastrophic flood we're talking about [5:23] here obviously but interestingly enough [5:26] this was a hundred-year flood that [5:27] happened in Georgia back in 2004 [5:30] and what we had was a a flood plane that [5:32] got uh over topped for the first time in [5:35] decades and it left these current [5:36] ripples here and I just I I use this [5:39] slide to show what we're used to on the [5:41] scale that of phenomena that we would [5:43] normally see this kind of phenomena so [5:45] this is a normal very large major storm [5:48] that you know makes sense this was [5:50] Hurricane Ivan when it came through in [5:52] 2004 it it was they referred to it as a [5:56] 100-year flood right so so this is a [5:58] massive storm but it's nothing out of [6:00] the ordinary really it's just it's rare [6:03] but huge it's rare what you'll see here [6:05] is you know I've got a measuring tape [6:06] here you're going to see the wavelength [6:08] is about 3 in the amplitude the vertical [6:11] height of these things is about 3/4 of [6:13] an inch and so these are all what we're [6:16] looking at is all dried dirt that has [6:19] sand it's been rippled it's been carried [6:22] along in swept along in this water that [6:24] was over this flood plane which was 2 ft [6:26] deep mhm carried along and as the water [6:29] declined it it it deposited this sand [6:32] and then rippled it as the final stages [6:35] and we're looking at this what year how [6:36] long after the the storm was this this [6:38] was a week or two after the storm [6:41] because within a month this was all all [6:43] obscured by wind and and everything so [6:46] now just so you've got this by [6:48] comparison we'll go to this this is what [6:51] grahe was just talking about cus Prairie [6:54] and and what you see here is there's [6:55] ranches out there and you've got this [6:58] 10mile long field of these gigantic [7:02] Ripples and if you look up in the upper [7:04] left hand corner of the screen you can [7:06] see some of these ripples they're like [7:09] Graham said they're they're 100 to 300 [7:12] feet in wavelength and they're up to 50 [7:15] ft in amplitude and the water that [7:18] flowed through here that that deposited [7:20] this was over 1,000 ft [7:22] deep so this is fractal this is fractal [7:25] you get it you get it in the small scale [7:28] in the in the first image rle showed the [7:30] same phenomenon there with a flood just [7:32] 2 feet deep and then we come to this [7:34] humongous testimony to what happened [7:37] 12,800 years ago and it's easy to drive [7:39] through it and not really figure what [7:40] you're driving through but once you once [7:42] you look at it and and realize what [7:44] happened it it really dilates the [7:46] imagination so this must have been just [7:48] an absolutely enormous event when it [7:51] happened and and really unimaginable [7:55] unimaginable and human beings lived [7:57] through that and it changed everything [8:00] these they're called extinction level [8:02] events these Global cataclysms wipe the [8:06] Slate clean they they change everything [8:08] and they and they set a new order in [8:10] motion a new order follows that so the [8:12] classic example is the extinction of the [8:13] dinosaurs 65 million years ago that [8:16] turned dinosaurs into chickens you know [8:19] and they were gone and it opened the way [8:20] for mammals and and our distant ancestor [8:23] is a sort of 65 million year old shrew [8:26] which was going nowhere until the [8:28] dinosaurs were wiped by a cosmic impact [8:31] and then they began to evolve and and [8:33] here we are so dinosaurs became chickens [8:35] and shrews became human being almost [8:38] harder for me to imagine than this this [8:40] is very hard to be for me to wrap my [8:41] head around but that we came from a [8:43] shrew 65 million years ago harder that's [8:46] the that's that's the that's the story [8:48] of of evolution one can buy into it or [8:50] not but that's certainly mammals were [8:52] going nowhere before the dinosaurs were [8:54] swept out of the way and the the point [8:56] I'm making is that these events which [8:58] are called extinction level events they [9:01] they reset the clock they they they make [9:03] everything start again and and this is [9:05] why what happened in North America [9:07] 12,800 years ago is so important because [9:10] that period the whole period was 12,800 [9:12] to 11,600 years ago that period stands [9:16] right in the foundations of what we [9:18] think of as the beginnings the origins [9:21] of civilization and yet mainstream [9:24] archaeology and historians have not [9:26] taken it into account and I don't blame [9:28] them for that this is new information [9:30] this is new science that's been mainly [9:32] published in the professional Journal [9:33] since 2007 it's very intriguing new [9:36] information but we cannot any longer [9:38] trust the established model of the [9:40] origins of civilization since it does [9:42] not take into account an extinction [9:44] level event right in the foundations and [9:46] that's why I say the house of History [9:48] appears to be built on foundations of [9:50] sand now this hasn't been adopted yet [9:53] but is it resisted is has mainstream yes [9:57] it is it's being resisted whenever you [9:59] when ever you propose a cataclysm of any [10:02] kind it's a curious thing I don't know [10:04] whether it's psychological or something [10:06] more Sinister than that but whenever [10:07] whenever you propose that and present [10:09] evidence for it you can be sure that you [10:11] will be descended upon by a furious [10:14] crowd of critics and the group of [10:16] scientists more than 30 of them very [10:19] significant mainstream scientists who've [10:20] been presenting the evidence for the [10:22] comet impact have had a fight on their [10:23] hands since 2007 but I can say with [10:27] confidence and I I detail it at length [10:29] in the the book that they have won that [10:30] fight every criticism that's been made [10:32] of their work they have refuted and [10:34] they've come back with new evidence [10:36] sometimes three or four papers a year [10:38] and it's a compelling case and we can't [10:40] ignore it anymore well it seems to me as [10:41] a casual Observer I mean more casual [10:44] mean probably more uh into it than the [10:46] average person but no not even close to [10:48] you guys that as this evidence piles up [10:50] like the the uh nuclear glass that they [10:53] keep finding at the it's about 12,000 [10:56] that's one of what they call the impact [10:58] proxies we got to consider is that we [11:00] are looking at objects which might be a [11:02] mile wide that are coming into the [11:04] atmosphere at 70,000 M an hour and they [11:07] are hot you know some people will [11:10] remember Comet Shoemaker Levy 9 that hit [11:13] Jupiter back in 1994 that was a small [11:15] Comet just 2 kilometers wide broke into [11:17] about 20 fragments the explosive power [11:21] of those impacts on Jupiter was 300 [11:24] gigatons now let me put that into [11:26] perspective the entire world's nuclear [11:28] AR Al were it to go off at once would be [11:31] 6.4 gatons so you're looking at [11:35] something Beyond imagination the the the [11:38] power of these impacts is absolutely [11:40] colossal numbers numbers don't do it [11:42] just imagine a world on fire a world [11:44] changed forever the explosion that hit [11:46] Jupiter was about the size of the Earth [11:48] too right no no no no this was a comet I [11:52] mean [11:54] impct the size of the Earth AB [11:57] absolutely so we're we're looking at at [11:59] something that when when it [12:02] happened what's the timeline around [12:04] would the calculations around somewhere [12:06] around 11,000 years ago well there's [12:08] actually a period this is this is an [12:10] episode rather than a single incident [12:12] and that's part of the mystery first off [12:15] there are the impacts 12,800 years ago [12:18] that causes this cataclysm centered on [12:20] North America but Global and Global [12:23] temperature plummets it I mean people [12:24] who talk about global warming or today [12:27] what what happen the change in [12:28] temperature 12 800 years ago was just [12:31] stunning and this is undeniable detailed [12:33] this in depth the last time he was here [12:36] with mainstream scientific data that's [12:38] irrefutable absolutely core samples ice [12:41] core samples those lines and they call [12:43] the Geist call it the younger dry ass [12:45] and it's a 1,200 year period [12:47] temperatures Plunge at the beginning [12:50] massive animal extinctions and then 1,2 [12:53] years later equally suddenly [12:55] temperatures shoot up again dramatically [12:58] and there's another series of floods so [13:00] the the period is 12,800 to 11,600 years [13:04] ago and I think I don't know if Randle [13:05] agrees we're we're sure that the comet [13:08] was the cause of the first event 12,800 [13:11] years ago I think other bits of the [13:13] Comet were responsible for the second [13:15] event as well I think there was an [13:16] impact in Ocean which threw water vapor [13:19] up into the upper atmosphere caused a [13:20] greenhouse effect and created that [13:22] sudden spike in warming and that huge [13:24] flood those two warming spikes show up [13:27] very dramatically in the Greenland ice [13:28] course and I pulled these up I think in [13:30] the last meeting but it it would be good [13:33] to reference it again and um basically [13:36] what you see here is warming Spike [13:39] number one is here and warming Spike [13:42] number two is here and these were [13:46] extreme you know we're talking about 10 [13:50] 10° Centigrade roughly in perhaps a year [13:54] or two and this translates into about 17 [13:57] or 18 degrees Fahrenheit so we're [13:59] talking many times greater than the the [14:02] warming of the last century or two um [14:05] instantly basically just like that and [14:08] this this is this this what we see here [14:10] brackets this this whole EP episode of [14:13] this this period of transition from the [14:15] glacial age to this nice warm hallene [14:18] interglacial age that we're in now and [14:21] you know Graham brought up about how [14:23] this sits right at the very Foundation [14:25] of our modern history and if you look at [14:29] whether it's the dispersion of languages [14:31] the beginning of Agriculture the first [14:33] cities the domestication of animals what [14:35] you see over and over again is the same [14:37] date showing up you know 8 n 10,000 [14:39] years ago and in this model that that [14:42] we're describing here we're not really [14:44] seeing the Genesis of civilization we're [14:47] seeing the the rebooting of civilization [14:51] in the aftermath of these events the [14:54] only thing that makes sense this is this [14:55] is this is we have now we have now the [14:58] data that makes sense of what previously [15:00] has been very mysterious and unexplained [15:02] evidence so for folks who are not aware [15:05] of both of your work to me this is so [15:08] fascinating because I've been a fan of [15:10] your your book since God I don't more [15:13] than a decade right when did it come out [15:15] in the '90s well Fingerprints of the [15:16] Gods was published in 1995 which is [15:19] which is 20 years ago and magicians of [15:21] the Gods the new book is the sequel to [15:23] fingerprints and I've written it because [15:24] there's just this mass of new [15:26] information that changes the the whole [15:28] picture completely Fingerprints of the [15:29] Gods I started reading sometime in the [15:31] late 9s and just became engrossed in it [15:35] and fascinated by this concept That [15:37] civilization and as as you put it that [15:40] we are a species that has Amnesia and [15:43] that we just forgot what our past was [15:46] but the the two of you together is [15:48] what's so fascinating because it puts [15:50] this puzzle together your obsession with [15:52] asteroidal impacts and these massive [15:55] Extinction events and your knowledge of [15:59] this ancient architecture that doesn't [16:01] make any sense and these ancient [16:03] construction methods that seemed to [16:05] differ and the the timelines and for [16:07] people aren't aware of the whole story [16:09] behind it the uh erosion on the [16:12] enclosure of the Sphinx where where they [16:14] made the Sphinx has thousands of years [16:17] of rainfall erosion that doesn't make [16:20] any sense because the last time there [16:22] was rain the Nile Valley was like 9,000 [16:25] BC which is right somewhere around there [16:27] L really we've the the climate of of of [16:30] Egypt has been as dry as it is today for [16:32] about the last 5,000 years so you have [16:34] to go back you actually have to go back [16:36] to this period to this younger Drass [16:38] period to get those heavy rainfalls that [16:40] could have eroded the Sphinx in the way [16:42] it is and I want to pay tribute to the [16:43] work of John Anthony West and Robert [16:45] shock from Boston University because [16:47] they broke this story way back in 1992 [16:50] and at the time the egyptological [16:53] establishment of course were Furious [16:55] that anybody dared to suggest that the [16:57] Sphinx might be 12,000 years old the [16:59] egyptologist said we know the Sphinx [17:01] dates from 2,500 BC actually one of the [17:04] things I've done in this book is look at [17:05] what the egyptological case rests on and [17:08] it's a fairy tale it rests on nothing [17:11] it's kind of ideology it's a it's it's [17:13] it's their idea of how things should be [17:15] rather than any real factual evidence [17:17] that puts the Sphinx at 2,500 BC and the [17:20] geology puts the Sphinx much much older [17:23] now the argument of the archaeologists [17:25] at the time was and anyway the Sphinx [17:28] couldn't possibly be 12,000 years old [17:31] because if that was the work of some [17:32] unknown culture 12,000 years ago we're [17:34] going to find lots of other monuments [17:36] around the world that are 12,000 years [17:38] old and we don't find any um well that [17:41] was [17:41] 1992 but now we're in 2015 and the site [17:45] of gockley tee in turkey has been [17:47] discovered with its gigantic megaliths a [17:51] deliberately buried Time Capsule buried [17:53] more than 10,000 years ago and created [17:56] 11 a half thousand years ago and if you [17:58] can make gole tee you can make the [18:00] Sphinx we are finding the Fingerprints [18:03] of this Lost Civilization popping up all [18:05] around the world indeed on any [18:07] archaeological side where you can be [18:09] absolutely sure of the dating the dating [18:12] proves to be much older than we have [18:14] been taught by archaeologists they [18:16] recently discovered a huge megalithic [18:18] site 40 meters underwater between in the [18:20] Sicily channel it's been underwater for [18:23] best part of 10,000 years which means [18:25] that megalithic site is at least that [18:28] old and may be much older and we can be [18:30] sure about the dating because it's [18:32] underwater likewise we can be sure of [18:34] the dating of gockley tee because [18:36] whoever made it deliberately buried it [18:38] sealed it and no later organic material [18:40] got in to contaminate the carbon dating [18:43] record and give falsely young and if [18:44] they didn't bury it someone else during [18:46] that time period buried it like somebody [18:48] buried it they went some we don't know [18:50] when it was built but we know it's [18:51] buried at least 10,000 plus years the [18:54] dates that are coming out of it now the [18:56] the earliest dates now it's important to [18:57] be clear that there's much more of [18:59] gockley Tey under the ground um there's [19:02] there's actually about 50 times as much [19:04] as has already been excavated which is [19:07] under the ground still and not been dug [19:09] up yet they know it's there because [19:10] they've been over the whole site with [19:11] ground penetrating radar and what [19:13] they're seeing is hundreds and hundreds [19:15] and hundreds of these huge 20 to 50 ton [19:19] t-shaped megalithic pillars buried under [19:22] the ground somebody just as Somebody [19:24] went to enormous lengths to create this [19:27] site they also or somebody else went to [19:29] enormous lengths to bury it and actually [19:31] goeke means potbellied Hill in the [19:34] Turkish language and that whole [19:35] potbellied hill that covers this site [19:37] was artificially put there by human [19:39] beings teams of men and women with [19:41] buckets filled with rubble and Stones [19:43] filling it in and covering it up so [19:45] strange and there's no no no guesses or [19:50] theories as to why they did this really [19:52] not there's there there's not it's just [19:54] a fact that it happened because because [19:56] archaeologists and geologists can tell [19:58] from the nature of the material that [19:59] covers these pillars that it isn't a [20:01] natural sedimentation that they were [20:03] deliberately covered up well it's got to [20:05] be satisfying to you guys two obsessed [20:07] crazy men come together and your [20:09] theories lock in like puzzle pieces and [20:12] haha and well you you you've got the [20:14] right word there because this obsess [20:16] crazy [20:17] man I'm glad you're obsessed crazy I say [20:20] that with all and respect I put my hat [20:22] up to that AB absolutely you got to be a [20:25] bit obsessed to stick with something [20:27] like this I you know I came in for an [20:28] enormous amount of of criticism and [20:30] Flack when I published Fingerprints of [20:32] the Gods and I'm human it hurts when [20:34] people say really bad things about me [20:36] but what I've learned is you just have [20:38] to persist you just have to you just [20:40] have to keep going even if your ideas [20:42] are shouted down by you know the [20:45] established holders of knowledge in our [20:47] society if you feel strongly enough [20:49] about those ideas you got to hang with [20:50] them and I've I've hung with these ideas [20:52] for more than 20 years now and what [20:55] we're seeing is just a mass of new [20:57] evidence that that b basically [20:58] vindicates the notion of of of A Lost [21:01] Civilization see if I may say gockley [21:04] tee um the earliest dates they've pulled [21:07] out of the ground now which they think [21:08] is the foundation of the site is 11,600 [21:11] years ago and that is really significant [21:14] because 11,600 years ago was the second [21:16] episode of cataclysm at the end of the [21:18] younger dras and we know it was [21:20] accompanied by Massive Global flooding [21:23] is it possible that this was covered up [21:26] then that it wasn't covered up intent by [21:29] people that it was covered up as a part [21:30] of that cataclysm no it was made after [21:32] the cataclysm was over and [21:34] archaeologists have a problem with this [21:36] because the site is very sophisticated [21:38] it contains the world's first perfectly [21:41] north south aligned structure and you [21:43] can't do that without precise astronomy [21:45] in fact there are huge astronomical [21:47] implications to the gocke site the the [21:50] architecture is is massive and you see [21:53] the problem archaeology has is that up [21:55] till now they've been teaching us that [21:57] megalithic sites like like this [21:58] astronomically a megalithic sites like [22:00] this are maximum of 5 to 5 a half [22:03] thousand years old and suddenly we're [22:05] looking at a site Which is far bigger [22:07] than any other megalithic site known in [22:08] the world which is at least 6,000 years [22:11] older than any other known site so how [22:14] do they explain this our ancestors are [22:16] supposed to have been just hunter [22:17] gatherers at that time Nomads following [22:19] the game not with a sophisticated [22:22] societal organization that would have [22:24] Specialists who had these knowledge who [22:25] had the skills who could put this put [22:27] this work together so the fairy tale [22:29] archaeologists are now telling about [22:31] gockley teepe is that one morning a [22:33] group of hunter gatherers woke up [22:35] somehow divinely inspired with with the [22:38] complete knowledge of megalithic [22:39] architecture and how to organize a [22:41] Workforce and how to bring them to a [22:43] site which by the way there's no water [22:44] on that site and to put this whole this [22:46] whole proposition together and at the [22:48] same time exactly at the same moment [22:50] 11,600 years ago we suddenly get [22:53] evidence of Agriculture spreading all [22:55] over turkey it's like gobec lppi is a [22:57] center of innovation and associated with [22:59] it is the birth of agriculture in in [23:02] Turkey uh and and to me this looks like [23:05] a transfer of Technology it does not [23:07] look to me like a group of hunter [23:09] gatherers woke up one morning magically [23:11] equipped with the ability to invent [23:13] Agriculture and create a megalithic site [23:15] like this it looks to me like people who [23:16] already had that knowledge came into [23:18] that area settled there and tried to [23:21] pass on their knowledge to the local [23:22] people and maybe used GOC tee as a kind [23:24] of University or initiation Center to [23:27] train and teach people in those skills [23:29] that's what it feels like and another [23:31] point is that that same date 11,600 [23:34] years ago is the date that Plato gives [23:37] us for the destruction and submergence [23:39] by flood of the Lost Civilization of [23:42] Atlantis and up till now archaeologists [23:44] have dismissed the whole Atlantis story [23:46] and they regard it as kind of pseudo [23:48] science although it comes from Plato but [23:50] Plato said very clearly that this [23:52] happened 9,000 years before the time of [23:55] Solon and Solon lived in 600 BC so Plato [23:58] has tell telling us Atlantis went down [24:00] 9,600 BC [24:02] 11,600 years ago exactly the date of the [24:06] second Spike of the younger dras [24:08] cataclysm if you look here at this graph [24:10] we see brand I'll pull this sucker up [24:11] close to you so that you get a little [24:13] bit more it's a we can see here these [24:15] are um studies of sea level rise at the [24:18] end of the Ice Age and rather than it [24:20] being a smooth curve which was the old [24:22] model which you can see represented by [24:24] the dashed line it's two enormous spikes [24:28] and that second Spike melt what there [24:30] you see mwp -1b that's meltwater pulse [24:35] 1B and you've got meltwater pulse 1 a [24:38] meltwater pulse 1B is dated precisely to [24:41] 11,600 years ago this is crazy it's like [24:44] everything aligns everything aligns the [24:47] that the the nuclear glass that they're [24:49] finding in the the core samples well all [24:52] the same around the same time this was [24:53] the point I want I wanted to to make [24:55] when we talk about these objects coming [24:57] in at 70,000 mil an hour they are [24:59] packing an enormous amount of kinetic [25:01] energy and heat and when they hit the [25:03] ground uh there are distinct products [25:06] left in the soil and and those include [25:08] Nano diamonds you canot they're created [25:11] by the shock and the impact you can only [25:12] see them you know they're under a [25:14] microscope they're tiny tiny tiny things [25:16] and carbon spherules and the melt glass [25:19] which is just basically identical to [25:20] trinitite which is the melt glass that [25:22] you get from nuclear explosions they're [25:25] called impact proxies and there's a [25:26] distinct layer of the soil all all [25:28] around the world dated to 12,800 years [25:31] ago which contains this stuff and also [25:34] contains the evidence of Continental [25:36] wildfires burning and I think Randall [25:38] might want to address that issue of [25:39] Continental wildfires and why they [25:41] happened the all these images are [25:43] beautiful but it's um note that most [25:45] people are just listening to this so if [25:48] you're just listening to this those [25:49] images that Randall put up on the the [25:51] screen show these enormous straight up [25:54] and down spikes of the water level [25:57] rising which [25:59] has to be caused by some ocean level [26:01] rising which has to be ca caused by [26:03] something extremely dramatic like that [26:06] just looking at that like wow what [26:08] happened there that's nuts that's the [26:11] melting of the ice sheets the sudden [26:14] rapid catastrophic meltdown of the ice [26:16] sheets dumping millions of cubic [26:20] kilometers of water back into the ocean [26:21] basins and how those little dashes on [26:24] the bottom the the numbers how many [26:26] years do they represent like that Spike [26:29] that goes straight up and down the [26:31] largest Spike how how much time does [26:33] that represent well you've got two two [26:35] here that basically represent the the [26:37] margin of error in the dating the [26:40] earliest version of it is the the spike [26:42] you see on the right the latest version [26:44] as you see is on the on the left and it [26:46] varies between about 14 and and 13,000 [26:49] years for the first Spike the second [26:51] spike is dating now to about like I said [26:54] about [26:55] 11,600 the the numbers across the bottom [26:57] are KYR means thousands of years before [27:00] present so you can see 9 10 that would [27:03] be 10,000 years ago so essentially seems [27:06] like our Earth went through like a [27:08] thousand years of horror thousand years [27:10] of Hell uh it it it it's it's really [27:13] impossible to imagine what the what the [27:15] world was like then for the people who [27:17] lived in it and I think it makes sense [27:20] of why all around the world we have a [27:23] story of a global flood this is this is [27:25] not something confined to the story of [27:27] Noah in the Bible this is a universal [27:29] story of a cataclysm that changed the [27:31] world and wiped away a former golden age [27:35] and left us with the present order of [27:36] things all around the world and secondly [27:39] all around the world and this is [27:40] intriguing there is a universal fear of [27:43] comets now why should we be afraid of [27:44] comets we see comets up in the sky they [27:46] whiz through they have this nice tail [27:48] they look they look pretty why should we [27:49] be scared of them but every culture in [27:52] the world has myths and traditions that [27:54] associate comets With Disaster uh and [27:58] and I think it's pretty obvious why [27:59] because this this comet impact 12,800 [28:02] years ago was remembered by the [28:04] survivors and they passed that memory [28:06] down to their children and their [28:07] children's children and it's still with [28:09] us today and it's now we know based on [28:11] something very real well it seems like [28:13] to me as a lay person with all this [28:16] evidence and all this evidence that [28:17] correlates it's all corresponding it all [28:20] seems to fit together it would it would [28:22] seem that this would be something that a [28:24] lot of mainstream scientists and [28:26] archaeologists would be extremely [28:28] interested in like why would they why [28:30] would they try to ignore something like [28:31] this the first thing they've tried to do [28:32] is to get rid of it this is often the [28:35] case where new information emerges that [28:37] contradicts established established [28:40] theories and it's a strange phenomenon [28:43] in science because we like to think of [28:45] scientists as as rational and and and [28:47] reasonable people but the fact is that [28:48] when you get very committed to a [28:50] particular model to a particular idea I [28:53] think you start to connect your own [28:54] personality to it and any attack on that [28:56] idea becomes an existential attack on [28:59] you yourself how sad and it is and it is [29:01] sad because again and again what we see [29:04] is the uh the new facts being dismissed [29:08] because they don't fit the existing [29:09] Theory where in fact what we should be [29:11] doing is modifying the existing Theory [29:13] to explain the newly discovered facts [29:15] and this is a this is a problem in the [29:17] whole history of science well I remember [29:19] when I first became aware of that [29:20] problem when I watched the the [29:22] documentary on the mysteries of the [29:23] Sphinx where Dr Robert shock met with uh [29:27] some [29:28] archaeologist in Egypt it wasn't zi [29:31] hawas it was a western guy and he met [29:34] with this guy and they were explaining [29:36] their theory about the erosions of the [29:37] Sphinx and he was laughing at it La mean [29:41] but openly mocking it like what evidence [29:44] where's this evidence but it was the way [29:46] he did it was just so riddled with ego I [29:49] was like how could you first of all the [29:51] concept of 11,000 years ago when you [29:54] start thinking about 11 that's a long [29:57] time and what what evidence really would [30:00] be there other than Stone it seems to me [30:02] there'd be very little I mean whatever [30:06] fragments of pottery you'd be lucky to [30:08] find we lucky to find it but looking for [30:10] some massive evidence that clearly shows [30:13] Beyond any shadow of it out well here it [30:14] is like oh boy you're you're asking for [30:17] a lot from 11,000 years ago and you have [30:20] something pretty substantial right in [30:22] front of you and he's mocking it exactly [30:24] this is why I've I've come to view [30:26] archaeology and and history is a kind of [30:28] more ideology really than than science [30:32] um there's there's there's an [30:33] ideological view about how civilization [30:36] developed that we have this long slow [30:39] gradual politically correct rise from [30:43] the upper Paleolithic from the hunter [30:45] gatherers through the Neolithic into the [30:47] first cities and we go on and on and [30:49] then we develop Technologies and here we [30:51] are the Apex and the Pinnacle of this [30:53] whole story and gosh we're so proud of [30:55] ourselves and our achievements and we [30:58] think we're wonderful and we praise and [31:01] value our technology I've got nothing [31:02] against technology but there's a hint of [31:04] arrogance in this there's a hint of of [31:06] of Pride that it was all about us and I [31:10] I think that the the once you start [31:12] introducing this this new view of [31:14] history that there may have been an [31:16] earlier civilization a high civilization [31:19] which was utterly wiped out by a global [31:21] cataclysm why it contradicts that [31:23] ideological position and you find [31:25] yourself in ideological struggle with [31:26] archaeologists and that's that's why you [31:28] know so for example if my book is handed [31:30] over to any archaeologist to review [31:32] they're just going to piss all over it [31:33] they're not even probably going to read [31:34] it they're just going to say Han they [31:36] say again and again hanok is a pseudo [31:38] scientist nobody should listen to him [31:40] that's their uh system of attack is to [31:42] first of all devalue you so much that [31:44] nobody will ever listen to you and [31:46] that's why I appreciate the support of [31:49] just real downto Earth people out there [31:51] who are looking at this information and [31:53] finding that actually yeah the story of [31:54] History we've been taught doesn't make [31:56] sense and this new [31:58] does make sense of it well this new [32:00] information in my eyes it seems It's So [32:03] substantial and there's so much of it [32:05] and it's so so much of it fits together [32:08] it's incredibly difficult to ignore and [32:10] much more so than when that documentary [32:12] in the Sphinx was created that was quite [32:15] a while ago charlon hon was the uh [32:18] narrator it and and and um you know at [32:21] that time uh we were sticking our necks [32:23] out putting that putting that [32:24] information forward I was in that [32:26] documentary as well and and but today [32:28] things have changed and and what I see [32:30] is the the archaeological mainstream in [32:32] a state of denial about this information [32:35] they just don't want to recognize it and [32:37] absorb it but they're going to have to [32:38] recognize it it's going to be forced [32:40] upon them whether they like it or not [32:42] it's so sad because you you know you [32:43] count on these people to distribute the [32:46] information but they their egos get [32:49] involved in things and if you've been [32:50] teaching something for a long time then [32:52] it turns out you gave out master's [32:54] degrees on things that were completely [32:56] incorrect absolutely it's absolutely and [33:00] something else although this sounds a [33:01] bit con conspiratorial I I think the [33:04] existing view of history is part of a [33:07] mind control system in our society it's [33:10] it's something that we're presented with [33:11] that we take in with our mother's milk [33:13] and we're never supposed a question um I [33:15] think it's if you control the past you [33:18] do actually control the present and the [33:19] future as well so but you mean if you [33:22] have an absolutely established narrative [33:25] that you're teaching and you're [33:26] unwilling to look at any Poss I [33:28] variations to that you're you're saying [33:30] like almost from an authority position [33:32] we know what happened and we know where [33:34] we're going but if you say [ __ ] we don't [33:37] know what happened then it's well well [33:39] then who are you to tell us where we're [33:40] going exactly and it starts to raise [33:42] questions over everything right yeah and [33:45] we're kind of in this in this mode now [33:47] where um there's a a very large growing [33:51] political agenda around the idea that [33:53] humans are the sole cause of global [33:56] change and that we are the dominant [33:58] Force within this whole process now here [34:01] we come along and we're saying well no [34:02] there's actually been uh forces [34:04] Unleashed on this planet that really [34:06] utterly dwarf anything we've done yet [34:09] what does that do to that to that [34:11] Paradigm you see that's that's what I [34:13] think what we're we're coming down here [34:14] to part of the um the scenario now is [34:19] that humans are engaged in causing the [34:21] sixth great mass extinction as we talked [34:23] about in one of your one of the previous [34:26] and now we're coming along and saying [34:27] well wait a second here's something from [34:29] outer space that has come in and caused [34:31] the last great mass extinction on Earth [34:34] and what's interesting I found is that [34:35] quite a number of the um the the [34:38] scientists that have been in the [34:41] opposition to the younger dras impact [34:43] hypothesis have been in the Forefront of [34:46] pushing this this scenario of [34:48] human-caused mass extinction and blaming [34:51] the extinction of the great megap that [34:54] died out 12,000 years ago on human [34:57] Hunters which I again we talked about [34:59] that and I consider that ludicrous that [35:02] you know paleo Indian Hunters using [35:04] Spears are going to cause the [35:06] extermination of 10 million woolly [35:07] mammoths before they could even [35:09] reproduce along with 120 other species [35:12] of megap [35:13] 65% of all mammals in North America were [35:17] wiped out somewhere around that time [35:19] Mega mammals Mega mamals which is over [35:21] 100 pounds in body weight essentially [35:24] actually more like 75% 75% 75% almost [35:28] instantaneously right I mean it was over [35:29] a course of a very short period of time [35:32] period of time the scientists who have [35:35] been diligently working away in this in [35:37] this field since they've published their [35:39] first paper in in in 2007 I've just [35:42] brought out a new paper in the [35:43] procedings of the National Academy of [35:44] Sciences July 2015 where they're doing a [35:47] statistical analysis of all the sites [35:49] where the evidence comes from and what [35:51] that tells us is that this is what is [35:53] referred to as an isochron this event [35:55] 12,800 years ago it's not we're not [35:58] looking at the effects of a 100 or 200 [36:00] years of um events we're looking at [36:03] something that happened effectively in a [36:05] single afternoon across 50 million [36:07] square kilometers of the Earth's surface [36:09] oo that gives me goosebumps a single [36:13] afternoon all over the world Everything [36:15] Changes forever changes forever and it's [36:18] [ __ ] for a thousand years absolutely [36:20] absolutely and then i' I'd like Randle [36:22] to address this issue of continent-wide [36:24] wildfires because we do see this in the [36:26] in the in the stratum that when you this [36:27] superheated ejector coming down on on [36:30] Ancient Primal forests consider the [36:32] effect this is Murray Springs one of the [36:35] Clovis sites and this is what the is [36:38] known as the black matte layer where is [36:39] Murray Springs it's in Arizona and it's [36:43] it's Southern Arizona and it's near the [36:45] Clovis site which is um New Mexico um [36:50] Clovis impact site well no the Clovis [36:53] site was where the one of the first [36:55] places in North America where human [36:57] remains were found in association with [36:59] uh extinct Mega mammals such as woolly [37:01] mammoths um and it's just outside of [37:04] Clovis New Mexico they refer to them as [37:06] the Clovis culture and because that [37:08] culture was one of the casualties of [37:10] this comet impact the comet impact is [37:13] often referred to as the Clovis Comet [37:14] okay yes and and many of these Clovis [37:17] sites and there's been over 50 of them [37:19] around now documented over North America [37:21] I think about two-third of them have [37:23] this black matte layer which shows up [37:25] very clearly in this image now that [37:26] black matte layer layer is black because [37:29] of the uh considerable amount of carbon [37:33] carbon soot that's in it so in other [37:35] words right there that's the evidence of [37:37] your wildfires is that this blanket of [37:39] soot over the continent that left this [37:42] black matte layer and below that black [37:45] mat layer you'll find extinct Mega [37:48] mammals like here you see the the yellow [37:51] arrow there points to the black matte [37:53] layer now if you look up you'll see how [37:54] it's more buff colored that was the [37:57] color of all of this but the soot that [37:59] was in that black matte layer has [38:01] dispersed and and colored the other [38:04] adjacent layers but you'll notice the [38:06] bones below are the bones of extinct [38:09] mammals the bones found above it are [38:11] extant or still existing mammals and [38:14] that layer [38:16] separates um these these these two [38:19] domains of extinct mammals and extant [38:23] just a very clear line yeah and and you [38:25] can see it it shows up so clear [38:28] right to people who are listening to [38:29] this when we're looking at the original [38:31] image that Randall showed it's almost [38:33] like an Oreo cookie like there's just a [38:35] clean line and then there's the white [38:37] filling underneath I mean it is as clear [38:39] as day and what are we talking about [38:42] like how much fire and for how long [38:45] creates this area well you're basically [38:48] talking about burning up a considerable [38:51] portion of the biomass of North America [38:53] in unglaciated North America to do this [38:56] and it's so you have the ice cap north [38:59] of roughly Minnesota and south of it you [39:01] have a heavily vegetated yes area [39:04] covered with Primal forests and that's [39:06] what goes on fire and the reason it goes [39:08] on fire is because when these impactors [39:10] come in they generate a huge amount of [39:12] heat and and what is called ejector [39:14] superheated ejector is thrown up into [39:16] the upper atmosphere and it falls down [39:18] all over the continent and it sets the [39:20] world on [39:21] fire God now at the perspective is so [39:25] difficult in this it's a cuz this [39:27] there's numbers that you guys are [39:29] throwing around and there Concepts [39:31] you're throwing around that I I just I [39:33] have to pause when you're I go wait a [39:35] minute I got to try to fit this in [39:37] somewhere but it's the whole the whole [39:39] world on fire yeah this is why I've [39:42] written this book because it's [39:43] mindboggling it's mindboggling material [39:46] and and up till now most of the [39:49] information has been confined to the [39:51] really rarified scientific journals very [39:54] little of it has got out into the public [39:55] domain so one of the things I've tried [39:57] to do is to put this together into into [39:59] a form that's very accessible to the [40:01] general public because we all need to [40:02] know about this this is our yesterday [40:04] this is our background this is this is [40:07] where we come from the present order of [40:09] the world has descended from that moment [40:13] and what is the mainstream explanation [40:14] for what we're looking at here like how [40:16] do they how do they describe this well [40:18] the mainstream I mean the mainstream I [40:20] to me now is fir Stone and West and and [40:22] K yeah and when rattle says fireone and [40:24] West and kennet he's talking about some [40:25] of the lead scientists who have [40:27] presented the evidence for the younger [40:28] Drass impact because they have triumphed [40:31] although they were attacked and [40:33] sometimes viciously and and Frankly [40:35] Speaking sometimes dishonestly they were [40:37] attacked but they defended themselves so [40:39] well and they kept on bringing in new [40:41] data and new information that actually [40:43] now we should be regarding their view as [40:46] the mainstream yeah there are a few [40:47] critics still hanging in there who would [40:49] like human beings to have been [40:50] responsible for the extinction of all [40:52] the the mega mammals and who would who [40:54] you know who just are in in denial about [40:56] the climate change at that time but [40:58] they're they're no longer the mainstream [40:59] in my view well one of the problems with [41:01] that theory is what you showed the last [41:02] time you were here these the evidence of [41:04] these wooly mammoths that died [41:06] instantaneously and that there massive [41:09] fields of them that something had to [41:11] happen and ones with like their legs [41:13] broken just bent over from the impact [41:16] like you're it's pretty clear something [41:18] went down and all of these pieces Point [41:21] together and including looking at this [41:24] which is just this is blowing my mind [41:26] this a of the world on fire just well [41:30] there were some places that apparently [41:31] got spared yeah like Australia or [41:33] something well Australia actually [41:36] suffered a major mass extinction but [41:39] earlier probably from some previous [41:41] event maybe 30,000 years ago [41:45] but just trying to figure out where to [41:47] go if it happens again East Central [41:48] Africa seems to have been one of the [41:50] places of Refuge because if we look at [41:52] the distribution of Mega mammals in the [41:54] world today where do we find the [41:56] greatest concentration [41:58] in in Africa right well Africa has [42:01] retained 90% of its Mega mammals from [42:04] the place to scene whereas North America [42:07] lost 75% if you go back to North America [42:10] during the Ice Age there was as many [42:11] mega mammals if not more species than [42:14] there is in Africa today but what we see [42:17] is that Extinction relates directly to [42:20] habitat loss and [42:23] basically not much survived in either [42:25] North or South America North and South [42:28] America were both severely affected by [42:31] these events and lost 75% of their Mega [42:34] mammals Eurasia lost between depending [42:37] on where you go between 30 and 50% [42:40] Africa only lost about 10% of them and [42:43] that's why you see so many big animals [42:45] still in Africa today a lot of them I [42:48] think probably dispersed from the area [42:50] around um the Great Rift Zone it seems [42:52] like in a lot of the areas actually [42:54] where we're finding early homodance is [42:56] is in that same area that seems like for [42:58] whatever reason it was spared somewhat [43:01] of the the extreme severity that the [43:04] rest of the planet suffered it's an [43:06] interesting situation because when we [43:09] look at the arguments of history and and [43:11] and archaeology very little of the story [43:14] is told in North America uh in as as [43:17] it's taught in in schools and [43:18] universities today you know they look at [43:20] places like Su in Mesopotamia and and [43:23] ancient Egypt and further down in South [43:25] America some of the the the great [43:27] cultures of the of the of the Andes but [43:30] it's like North America is missing from [43:32] from the map they they talk about hunter [43:33] gatherers coming in here across the [43:35] bearing straight and there's still a a a [43:37] a dogged faction of archaeology that [43:39] wants to maintain that that just [43:41] happened about 13,000 years ago um and [43:44] and that there was no human beings in [43:46] the Americas before that although the [43:47] mass of contradictory evidence is [43:49] overwhelming that Dogma as well it's [43:51] obvious that the Americans were [43:53] populated long before that and those [43:55] populations did not only come in across [43:57] the bearing straight they came in in in [43:59] other ways as well and and and then [44:01] there just seems to be nothing for a [44:03] very long time and and North America's [44:05] kind of left out of the story of [44:06] civilization well now I think we know [44:08] why because North America was at the [44:11] heart of This Disaster it was at the [44:13] absolute epicenter and the Slate was [44:16] completely wiped clean here and that's [44:18] what archaeologists are are looking at [44:20] they're seeing a WIP clean slate and [44:22] they think they're seeing the beginning [44:23] of something actually they're not [44:25] they're seeing the movement of something [44:27] after a horrendous disaster wow it's [44:31] just it's so hard to wrap my mind around [44:35] this idea that for literally A Thousand [44:38] Years the Earth was just riddled with [44:42] asteroidal impacts and fire and nuclear [44:45] winter because of the dust and mass [44:48] extinction of it's so hard the the [44:50] numbers that you're throwing around and [44:52] the ideas behind it it's it's it's very [44:55] difficult for folks to put something in [44:57] there that that um brings it home in a [45:00] way see this um event 12,800 years ago [45:05] we know now it was caused by fragments [45:08] of a very large comet and The Works [45:10] suggest that that Comet may have been [45:12] more than 100 km in diameter originally [45:15] when it entered the inner solar system [45:17] see that's like 62 miles right is that [45:19] some big big old Comet and these comets [45:22] they come in from deep space how big was [45:24] the one that killed the dinosaurs like [45:26] five miles well that's thought to be 10 [45:28] km wide that that mil that that object [45:31] 10 six six miles wide and 10 times that [45:33] big yeah these things these things come [45:36] in from deep space there are reservoirs [45:38] of comets there's a place that they call [45:40] the or Cloud which is just so far away [45:43] that it's almost impossible to imagine [45:44] it but it contains trillions of comets [45:47] and often they're they're in stable [45:49] orbits they're not coming into the inner [45:51] solar system but as the solar system [45:54] orbits around the center of the Galaxy [45:56] our galaxy is the Milky Way and we are [45:59] in orbit around the center of the Galaxy [46:01] our sun our solar system everything is [46:03] in orbit around the center of the Galaxy [46:04] and that orbit is not only in the plane [46:07] of the Galaxy imagine a dolphin diving [46:10] up and down coming out of the surface of [46:13] the sea descending below rising up again [46:16] that's what the solar system is doing [46:17] and those passages through the galactic [46:19] plane disturb the or cloud and they send [46:22] comets winging in to the inner solar [46:25] system thank God God for Jupiter Jupiter [46:29] with its huge gravity is the great [46:31] protector of the Earth we should all [46:33] wake up every day and say thank you [46:35] Jupiter thank you Jupiter this doesn't [46:37] happen too often but every now and then [46:39] a comet gets past Jupiter's God and [46:42] comes in and enters the inner solar [46:44] system and the calculations show this [46:46] happened about 20,000 years ago and that [46:48] Comet went into an orbit that crosses [46:50] the orbit of the earth twice a year we [46:53] are still crossing the orbit of that [46:56] comet twice a year and there is still a [46:59] very disturbing amount of debris within [47:02] it it's called The Torrid meteor stream [47:05] we've actually just finished our latest [47:07] Passage through the torrid meteor stream [47:09] the Earth passes through the torid [47:11] meteor stream twice a year it takes 12 [47:13] days to pass through it because the tour [47:15] meteor stream more numbers is 30 million [47:17] kilometers wide and we orbit at the rate [47:20] of 2.5 million kilm a day so 30 12 days [47:24] to pass through it and in the last last [47:27] 11,000 or so years we've been lucky [47:30] we've been passing through this 30 [47:32] million mile wide stream we've been [47:34] passing through bits where there are [47:35] just filaments of small debris but the [47:37] evidence is that it is actually full of [47:39] large locky Rocky debris including one [47:41] object that may be as much as 30 km in [47:44] diameter sitting in that Torrid meteor [47:46] stream so it's like I compare it to like [47:48] strapping on a blindfold and crossing a [47:50] six Lane Highway and just hoping that [47:53] you don't get hit by a truck you know [47:55] that's what it that's what it comes [47:56] comes down to and we've been we've been [47:58] lucky so far actually the most recent [48:01] definite impact from the torid meteor [48:02] stream uh was in 198 and that was in [48:06] Russia in Siberia it's called the [48:08] tunguska event as I said there's two [48:10] passages through the stream one in June [48:12] end of June early July and one in [48:14] November and this was at the end of June [48:16] an object not very big about 100 meters [48:19] in diameter came out of the torid metus [48:22] stream entered the atmosphere of the [48:23] earth and actually blew up in the sky it [48:25] was an air burst about 5 km above the [48:27] ground it flattened 80 million trees [48:31] across 2,000 square km I'm sorry I keep [48:34] using kilm 2,000 square kmers of the [48:36] Earth's surface that's an area about the [48:38] size of the city of London if that [48:41] impact had happened over an inhabited [48:43] area hundreds of thousands of people [48:44] would be killed and we would all be [48:46] paying much more attention to the torid [48:48] meteor stream today than we are [48:50] presently doing we should be paying [48:52] attention to it so we just got super [48:54] lucky that it hidden a very lightly [48:57] populated area and it didn't even hit [48:59] blew up in the sky above it pull up see [49:01] if you can find some image of tunguska [49:04] cuz it's pretty staggering Stagg and it [49:07] literally looks like there was like a [49:10] Matchstick Forest that someone pushed [49:12] over like a series of dominoes or [49:15] something yeah God Jamie Jamie's a [49:19] wizard kids out in the ball look at him [49:21] over there yeah God so so here's the [49:24] thing we are still interacting [49:27] with the debris of this Comet that [49:30] changed the world 12,800 years ago it it [49:34] it's not something remote and distant [49:35] it's part of our it's part of our daily [49:37] lives and and it is something we should [49:40] be paying attention to and a number of [49:41] astronomers are very concerned about the [49:44] tourid meteor stream now I don't want to [49:45] be the one who goes around the world you [49:47] know wearing the Sandwich Board saying [49:49] that Doom is nigh literally the sky is [49:51] falling yeah I I don't want to be that I [49:54] don't want to manifest that I don't want [49:55] to bring that down I actually want to [49:57] say that there's something positive to [49:58] say about this we are almost certainly [50:01] the first civilization that's ever [50:03] existed on this planet that has the [50:05] capacity to intervene in our Cosmic [50:08] environment should we choose to do so we [50:10] can make sure that we are not the next [50:13] Lost Civilization we can make sure that [50:16] life and light continue on this planet [50:18] and that our story continues but we need [50:21] to pay attention to our Cosmic [50:22] environment and a number of scientists [50:24] are now saying the same thing that that [50:28] it's irresponsible of us to pretend that [50:31] impacts like this may they just happen [50:33] every hundred million years we don't [50:34] need to worry about them we are [50:36] intimately connected with a force that [50:38] can change life on Earth and we have the [50:41] power to do something about it so I [50:43] would suggest instead of wasting you [50:45] know trillions of dollars globally uh [50:48] creating weapons of mass destruction to [50:50] destroy one another and to to manifest [50:53] the hatred and fear and suspicion that [50:55] are just whizzing around the world right [50:56] now we should be looking at a grand [50:58] human project a Cooperative effort to [51:00] make our Cosmic environment safe and we [51:02] have the technology now it's just a [51:04] matter of choice it's just a matter of [51:05] budget trillions of dollars are spent on [51:07] arms and roughly 20 to30 million are [51:10] spent a year on so-called spacewatch [51:13] it's a ridiculous chump change given the [51:16] nature of the threat and and and the [51:18] implications about the same as the cost [51:20] to run one McDonald's restaurant for a [51:22] year is what we're spending on studying [51:25] the cosmic environment in terms of [51:27] threats that's a hilarious [51:29] comparison yeah what a resourceful [51:32] little freaky animal people are if you [51:34] really stop and think about it almost [51:36] wiped off the face of the planet you [51:39] know 10,000 12,000 years ago and then we [51:42] reach a point where here we are in 2015 [51:44] and through all these inventions we're [51:46] starting to [51:48] ReDiscover what our history truly is and [51:50] ReDiscover the the history of the earth [51:52] and and it's its interplay with all [51:55] these Cosmic forces you know modern [51:57] humans have now what 190,000 yeah the [52:01] earliest I mean the earliest definite [52:03] anatomically modern human skeletal [52:05] remains date back about 196,000 years [52:08] there's some other plausible ones that [52:10] about 210,000 years nothing before that [52:13] it doesn't mean that we were not [52:15] anatomically modern before that it may [52:17] just mean that archaeologists haven't [52:18] found the the data yet but we can be [52:21] sure that people like you and me have [52:23] been around for about 200,000 years with [52:27] the anatomically modern form and the [52:29] anatomically modern brain so there's a [52:31] mystery right there why did we wait [52:34] 190,000 years to establish the first [52:37] civilizations it it raises the [52:39] possibility that we could have done so [52:42] much earlier and that the Slate has been [52:44] wiped clean think about it this way Joe [52:46] my grandfather was born in [52:48] 1895 the main mode of transportation [52:50] aside from railroads at that time was [52:52] horseback right his grandfather you know [52:56] would have been born pre- Civil War so [52:58] in five generations we've gone from the [53:01] very first railroads the beginning of [53:02] the Industrial Revolution to where we [53:04] are now in five generations now if you [53:07] go back 200,000 years say [53:11] 196,000 and we divide that by 25 I love [53:14] when Randle breaks out the almost we're [53:18] looking at almost 8,000 generations of [53:20] humans wow yeah now think about that [53:23] within five generations we've gone from [53:26] 90% dominant agriculturally based [53:29] subsistance farming right feudal system [53:33] to where we are now but now we've got [53:35] 8,000 generations of humans on this [53:39] planet who knows what we may have [53:41] accomplished in the past but once you [53:44] put this perspective and and you got to [53:46] understand that the that the catastrophe [53:48] we're talking about 12,000 years ago [53:51] while all the evidence suggests it was [53:54] the most severe probably at least within [53:56] 5 million years because the last time we [53:59] can find a species loss equivalent to [54:02] the terminal Pine species loss was 5 [54:05] million years ago the hemp hillian event [54:07] it's called um which then I would then [54:10] consider that again as a as a measuring [54:12] stick for habitat loss which would in [54:14] turn be a measure of the severity of [54:17] whatever happened but the the the point [54:20] is is that in the time that we humans [54:22] have been around there have been [54:24] multiple catastrophes of a global scale [54:26] not as severe as the one we're talking [54:28] about here but certainly the the [54:30] framework of this planet has been shaken [54:33] numerous times and in 200,000 years [54:36] we've had probably four great glacial [54:39] cycles that have come and gone now just [54:41] a glacial cycle alone I mean think about [54:44] that what the ice will do to the [54:46] landscape and and dropping sea levels [54:49] 400 feet and now during an Ice Age [54:51] you've got to bear in mind that probably [54:53] the most habitable place to be on the [54:55] planet is going to be on Co Co lines [54:57] along the mouths of rivers and so forth [55:00] what happens when all that ice melts and [55:02] sea level comes up 3 or 400 ft and and [55:05] it's going to pretty much erase most of [55:08] the evidence of human habitation [55:11] although and I think I talked about this [55:13] last time and and you would probably [55:14] concur with this the the importance of [55:17] marine archaeology it's extremely [55:19] important but again unfortunately Marine [55:22] archaeology has its Eye Off the Ball [55:24] most of the resources in Marine [55:25] archeaology going into shipwrecks [55:27] looking for looking for shipwrecks right [55:29] um and and you know I get that it's [55:31] really interesting to look at shipwrecks [55:33] but but there is a Prejudice in [55:34] archaeology which says there could have [55:36] been no interesting civilization before [55:38] 12,000 years ago so since the those [55:41] lands that were submerged by rising sea [55:43] levels have been underwater for 10 or 12 [55:45] thousand years we're not really [55:46] interested in human habitations there [55:48] and and and this is the problem a very [55:50] focused effort needs to be made to look [55:53] at these lost lands I can put that in [55:55] Miles 10 million square miles of the [55:57] Earth's surface roughly Europe and China [55:59] added together was submerged by the [56:01] rising sea levels at the end of the last [56:03] I Jesus Christ that's what's missing [56:06] from the record you know and and again [56:09] we're talking about wiping the Slate [56:10] clean and R's right those ice caps that [56:13] sit on top of a continent which are [56:15] Mountain High they're going to just [56:17] ground grind to powder anything that [56:21] lies below them so was there a [56:23] civilization there before where the ice [56:24] cap formed who knows a mile high of ice [56:28] even more than that in some cases over [56:30] over central Canada it might have been [56:32] as much as 2 miles two [56:34] miles just pushing across the ground [56:37] like an eraser exactly and crushing the [56:40] surface of the ground down I think in [56:42] our discussions of Atlantis we covered [56:44] that a little bit crushing the surface [56:46] of the of the land down by perhaps a [56:48] couple of thousand feet isostatic [56:51] depression you remember the geology [56:52] lesson I gave you last time yes about [56:55] isostatic depression and we discussed [56:57] how at this very moment the your ass is [57:00] demonstrating an important geological [57:03] phenomena of isostatic depression [57:05] sitting on that cushion that you're [57:06] sitting on and if you were to stand up [57:09] what happens when the you stand up the [57:10] cushion comes back up doesn't it it's [57:12] exactly what happens and you can almost [57:14] picture the planet breathing in effect [57:16] the the the the ice is released from the [57:19] Continental surface the Continental [57:21] surface begins to rebound the weight is [57:23] transferred back into the ocean basins [57:25] and there has to be the what's called [57:28] rology which is the study of the [57:29] distribution of the inner mass of the [57:31] Earth requires that there be [57:34] compensation so if if in one area of the [57:37] surface the land is rising somewhere [57:39] else it has to be subsiding and the [57:42] obvious place would be that as you [57:43] transfer the weight from the continent [57:45] back into the ocean basins that the [57:47] ocean basins are going to sub subside [57:50] and this brings us you know to the whole [57:52] question of of of a of the scientific [57:54] veracity of of a sunken land mass you [57:58] know I think you have an interesting [57:59] point on the aars in in this in this [58:02] sense because there you have this [58:03] massive it's like a seasaw there you [58:05] have this massive weight pressing down [58:07] on the North American continent and [58:08] suddenly it's lifted that that that [58:11] massive weight pushed down North America [58:13] but it lifted up other areas the other [58:15] end of the Seesaw then the weight comes [58:17] off this end goes up and the other end [58:20] goes down and suddenly you get the [58:22] possibility of the submergence of a land [58:24] mass it just falls under the sea because [58:26] of and there is actually considerable [58:28] empirical evidence suggesting that there [58:31] was massive postglacial subsidence along [58:34] the Mid-Atlantic Ridge which is where [58:36] the azos are yeah yeah and which is [58:38] pretty much where Plato said Atlantis [58:40] was yeah wasn't there some discovery of [58:43] some concentric circles that were [58:45] submerged somewhere near Spain that they [58:47] considered to be a [58:48] possibility cadis um I I don't think is [58:52] that your Spain yeah it's it's um I [58:54] think it's much more recent much much [58:56] more recent than the than the [58:57] information we're looking at so it's [58:59] just another yeah Port that was [59:01] submerged that was submerged there could [59:03] be a lot of reasons why this why why [59:05] this happens actually it's happening in [59:06] the in the UK where where I where I'm [59:08] from because the ice sheets in the UK [59:10] were on the north of the UK over [59:11] Scotland and they were pressing Scotland [59:14] down and they caused the southern part [59:16] of England to rise up then when you take [59:18] those ice sheets off the southern part [59:20] starts to go down so that's places like [59:22] the aisle of white in the English tannel [59:23] they're sinking Beneath the Sea because [59:25] of this still the effect of that rebound [59:27] is happening today that's called the [59:28] glacial for [59:29] bulge where outside the the glaciers the [59:33] land is pushed up you know this uh [59:35] speaks to how people have a hard time [59:38] accepting some of this new information I [59:40] have a friend who's a scientist and uh [59:42] the last time you were on she said to me [59:44] did you have a climate denier on your [59:47] show a climate change denier and I said [59:50] he's definitely not denying it no no but [59:54] some people that's all they hear when [59:57] you bring forth a a non-mainstream point [60:01] of view or a controversial perspective [60:04] instead of considering the possibility [60:07] it almost immediately gets dismissed as [60:09] well this climate change thing is [60:10] another ideological struggle yeah sure [60:12] climate change is taking place but what [60:14] are the causes for this you know are we [60:15] so sure that it's all caused by human [60:17] beings I would say there's a very good [60:19] reason for Humanity to clean up our act [60:22] in lots of ways regardless of the issue [60:24] of climate change [60:26] we're abusing Mother Earth We're living [60:28] upon this planet like like parasites and [60:31] and destroying it we thoughtlessly [60:33] create gigantic pools of of pollution [60:36] we're we're crazy enough insane enough [60:38] to actually invent nuclear weapons and [60:40] you know long periods of to detonate the [60:43] bloody things you know this is there [60:46] Lots about our behavior that we need to [60:48] fix because it's right to fix it [60:50] philosophically right we should not [60:52] behave that way we should not behave [60:53] that way to one another we should not [60:55] behave that way to planet Earth but to [60:57] say that we need to fix our Behavior [60:58] because of global warming that's an [61:00] ideological argument and that argument [61:03] remains to be properly tested yes global [61:05] warming is occurring but are we the [61:07] cause of it or is something else some [61:08] some grander scale Cosmic effect [61:10] involved in this we we talked about that [61:13] considerably and I noticed in a lot of [61:14] the comments from from our last [61:17] discussion most of the critical comments [61:19] were people you know not liking the idea [61:23] that I had questioned the dogma of [61:25] global warming but there are some facts [61:27] that you can't escape know the global [61:29] warming began 200 years ago and we see [61:32] that the glaciers from the little Ice [61:33] Age began to shrink back in the early [61:35] 19th century before there was you know a [61:38] century before there was any significant [61:40] human cont contribution of CO2 to the [61:43] atmosphere so something was driving that [61:46] warming that began and it's important to [61:49] realize that the little ice age was [61:51] probably the coldest period since the [61:54] end of the great ice age in fact the [61:57] data overwhelmingly supports that and [61:59] that the glaciers grew to their largest [62:01] extent around the planet in 10,000 years [62:04] so when we're talking about Glacier [62:06] recession it's important to understand [62:08] what the Baseline is our Baseline in [62:10] this case is the biggest the glaciers [62:12] have been in 10,000 years and what's [62:14] interesting and this is going on right [62:15] now as the glaciers have been receding [62:18] geologists and biologists and and [62:21] glaciologists and so forth have been [62:23] studying um the landscap Apes that are [62:26] being revealed as the ice shrinks back [62:28] and you know what they're finding is the [62:30] remains of forests that had been overrun [62:33] by the little Ice Age glaciers up you [62:36] know and and and Pete bogs and things [62:38] that would suggest that prior to the [62:41] onset of the little Ice Age those [62:43] valleys that were filled with ice from [62:46] roughly 1400 to 1800 were actually [62:49] forested because the ice came down and [62:52] overran these forests and now it's [62:54] receding back and revealing that there [62:56] were forests there so that tells you [62:59] that you know at some point probably [63:01] going back to the medieval warm period [63:04] those areas that were that have been [63:05] glaciated during the early part of the [63:07] 20th century were actually free of ice [63:10] and so you know the climate has been [63:12] extremely Dynamic that's the thing we [63:15] have to emphasize all by itself without [63:17] any help from humans and this is what [63:19] I'm been saying is that we have to look [63:22] at that and and realize that yeah humans [63:24] are a factor you know somebody I did [63:27] post and said all the other factors I [63:29] had mentioned as you know ocean currents [63:31] and wind currents and geomagnetic field [63:33] and cosmic rays and vulcanism and all [63:35] that had all been investigated and [63:37] dismissed and the only thing left was [63:40] the human contribution but you know to [63:42] me that's really we're putting all our [63:44] eggs in that basket and that could turn [63:46] out to be very dangerous because we're [63:48] so focused now on our own contribution [63:51] that we might be overlooking the fact [63:53] that there have been Natural Factors [63:55] driving climate change over and over and [63:58] over again I mean because I still have [64:00] not heard any consensus on what has [64:03] caused the planet to First go into an [64:05] ice age and come back out of an ice age [64:08] and I think that what Graham and I are [64:10] talking about actually presents a a [64:12] possible solution to what could have [64:14] brought this planet out of the Ice Age [64:17] something on a grand Cosmic scale and [64:20] the other point I think I'd like to make [64:21] is that we have to really to understand [64:24] our planet as a system we have to [64:26] realize that it's part of a cosmic [64:28] ecosystem and the cosmos has been a much [64:31] bigger player in what's been going on [64:33] down here than has been previously [64:35] understood or appreciated and I think [64:38] our ancestors probably did understand [64:40] that they did understand it they they [64:42] they the the focus on the skies if you [64:45] go back into ancient times is so strong [64:47] this notion of As Above So Below that we [64:50] are connected to the cosmos this is this [64:52] is something that we're tending to [64:53] forget in the modern world again because [64:55] we're so puffed up with pride and anyway [64:57] we can't see the sky if we live in CI a [64:59] big issue light pollution it's just like [65:00] a haze up there we don't we don't we [65:02] don't we don't see anything so we're [65:04] we're actually cut off from the cosmos [65:07] psychologically and that's that's a [65:09] mistake because we we are part of this [65:10] giant Cosmic environment and it affects [65:12] us and one of the way it affects us is [65:14] the way that comets come into the inner [65:16] solar system from time to time from deep [65:17] space I was camping in Montana recently [65:21] and uh you know when you're out at night [65:23] and you look at that night sky and [65:24] there's no light pollution it's just a [65:27] totally different perspective and it [65:29] gives you a different sense of where you [65:31] are in the universe because we're so and [65:35] it's not it's not necessarily our fault [65:37] it's almost like we've put up a curtain [65:39] over the heavens and we can't see [65:41] through the curtain because we've [65:43] decided that we like light and we like [65:44] traffic lights and you know building [65:46] lights and all this Jazz and we don't [65:48] realize until we're out in the woods or [65:51] in the wild until you're in the [65:52] wilderness and there's no light [65:54] pollution you really don't realize what [65:55] we're missing and what we're sacrificing [65:57] in order to have these lights the view [65:59] of the heavens it's it's so it's [66:02] psychedelic in a way because it makes [66:05] you feel like oh my God I'm we're really [66:07] flying through space and nice that [66:09] Mother Nature has provided us with those [66:11] plots that really help us to appreciate [66:13] it from I try to go every year to the [66:15] cek observatory on the big island I try [66:17] to schedule my uh holidays as much as [66:21] possible around the time where there's [66:22] no moon because it is UN believable [66:26] because the kek observatory is more than [66:28] 9,000 ft above seal there's a The [66:31] Visitor Center and then there's the [66:32] observatories above but you really don't [66:34] even know how to go past the visitor [66:35] center but they're um the way they have [66:38] it set up they have these special street [66:41] lights all throughout the big island [66:43] with diffused lighting so it doesn't [66:45] interfere it doesn't give you light [66:46] pollution and when you're up there [66:48] you're the you you go through the clouds [66:51] and the view is insane it it doesn't [66:55] even look [66:56] it doesn't even look real like you see [66:57] all the stars like this can't be real [67:00] how could this be up there every day and [67:02] we don't see it but what we've done is [67:05] create all this incredible stuff these [67:08] streets and buildings and laptops and [67:11] cell phones and in the in doing so we [67:14] have robbed ourselves of a perspective [67:16] yeah and it's weird because you know we [67:18] we have this technology that enables us [67:19] to go around the whole world and and [67:21] even go out into outer space but [67:23] actually we in a way it's narrowed our [67:26] Focus we we we we focus in on the on the [67:28] technology and its products and we [67:30] forget about the Majestic Cosmic and and [67:33] and Earth environment in which we in [67:35] which we live how sacred it is how [67:37] beautiful it is how meaningful it is to [67:39] all of us and that was the image that [67:40] our ancestors always had and that's [67:43] probably why they concentrated on it so [67:44] much and the things that happened up [67:46] there were evident to them I mean [67:48] because these days how many people see [67:51] meteors very living in an urban [67:54] environment you never see that hard [67:55] unless it's really spectacular but you [67:58] go out like you said in Montana or the [68:00] one of my favorite places to go out in [68:02] the high desert country and there you [68:04] really it's some the Stars almost you [68:06] can reach out and touch them you know I [68:08] think that one of the most important [68:09] things that we could do for future [68:11] Generations is part of our educational [68:14] curriculum for young people is get them [68:17] out of the Cities into nature into the [68:20] tremendous you know where they can [68:23] actually see the sky because I mean I [68:25] you know in living in Atlanta I'll talk [68:26] to people even grownup people that have [68:29] have no clue have no clue you know you [68:32] couldn't they couldn't find the North [68:33] Star they couldn't find the plane of the [68:35] ecliptic if their life depended on it [68:38] they you know they're just we've we've [68:40] become cut off from that level and I [68:42] think that that's it's important for us [68:44] to keep that because our Consciousness [68:46] is linked to this greater domain and and [68:49] we have segregated ourselves from that [68:52] and and I think that there's something [68:54] there you know amazing ly it's it's a [68:56] grounding experience when you get out [68:58] and you you begin to see the sky and you [69:01] can actually um you know begin to to [69:04] figure out and and and identify the [69:06] constellations um you know to to know [69:10] where the planets are to to look in the [69:12] sky and it's really good mental exercise [69:14] it's something worth anybody doing get [69:16] to grips with all that up there as the [69:18] Ancients did it it gets your mind [69:19] working and it may even have been used [69:22] deliberately for that purpose in ancient [69:23] times as a kind of initiation system if [69:25] you can get this then you move on to the [69:28] to the next level you know that's the [69:30] that's the that's the kind of idea well [69:31] it was a critical part of Education [69:33] where it's very rarely even discussed [69:35] today [69:36] Asom and look again at the ideology so [69:39] for example if you talk about astrology [69:42] to any most any mainstream scientist [69:45] they're going to laugh in your face [69:46] they're going to say pseudo science um [69:48] because they're so locked into this [69:50] Earth centered perspective that which [69:52] which convinces them that the MOS does [69:56] have no effect on us so how can changing [69:58] patterns of the Stars which zodiacal [70:01] constellation is sitting behind the Sun [70:02] at a particular time how can that affect [70:04] us how can when we were born uh affect [70:06] us I don't think we should throw that [70:08] baby out with the bath water too fast I [70:10] think we looking at an ancient science [70:12] with with astrology and I think it it's [70:14] worth it's been heavily diluted and [70:17] prostituted in the modern world but if [70:19] you go back to the Antiquity you go back [70:21] to the real origins of this and you [70:22] start finding some very interesting [70:24] information coming out there's a [70:25] fantastic book by a guy called Rick [70:27] taras called Cosmos and psyche and he's [70:29] a real mainstream but very major [70:32] academic and he's got into this and he's [70:33] shown that actually yeah astrology does [70:35] have effects so we should not we should [70:37] not deny our Cosmic environment that's [70:39] the first thing we need to do to connect [70:41] to it and we shouldn't close oursel off [70:42] to Avenues of inquiry for ideological [70:45] reasons it's it's noticeable in this [70:47] field of ancient history how [70:49] archaeologists throw around words like [70:51] pseudo archaeologist or pseudo scientist [70:54] that's meant to be an inst dismissal [70:56] just like climate denal climate Den you [70:58] call somebody a climate Den today that's [71:00] like saying don't listen to anything [71:02] that guy has to say never listen to it [71:04] again these are ideological tools which [71:06] are being used to straight jacket the [71:08] human mind and to stop us thinking [71:10] outside the box and if there's ever a [71:12] time that we needed to think outside the [71:13] box I would say that time is right now [71:15] isn't it ironic that in this time of [71:18] more information available to the [71:20] average person ever before that this [71:22] also has coincided with our lack of [71:25] appreciation for what's above us very [71:28] strange that it's a very curious [71:30] phenomenon and here here's an [71:31] interesting perspective you know as [71:33] we're talking about how Dynamic the [71:35] planet is and how it's changed and how [71:37] dramatically different which it is I [71:39] mean if we go back to the end of the Ice [71:40] Age you know you go east of here out of [71:43] the Mojave Desert that was Lush [71:44] grasslands and forests you go out here [71:47] to the Santa Rosa Islands you know out [71:49] here they were all forested with oak [71:50] trees and beach trees and and uh mammoth [71:55] Mammoth exilus which was the pygmy [71:57] Mammoth you know I mean everything down [71:59] here changes dramatically but when we go [72:01] out and we look at the sky we're [72:03] basically seeing the same sky that our [72:05] ancestors of 20,000 years ago were [72:07] looking at and that's something to keep [72:10] in mind because there's something [72:11] there's a backdrop to all of this drama [72:14] and change here below that's pretty much [72:16] for the most part remained consistent [72:19] but within that backdrop of consistency [72:21] every once in a while something shifts [72:24] and when it shift out there I think our [72:26] ancestors knew that there was a direct [72:28] consequence here below and that's one of [72:31] the reasons they were so obsessed with [72:32] with being able to track motion um you [72:36] know all of these ancient observatories [72:38] from Stonehenge on down the line to you [72:41] know the the the mound structures here [72:43] in North America and let's not forget [72:44] gockley tee profoundly astronomical s [72:47] gockley tee yes these were astronomical [72:49] observatories using the Horizon [72:52] essentially as a telescope by which very [72:55] intimate and intricate movements within [72:57] that backdrop of fixed Stars could [72:59] actually be [73:01] observed possibly for predictive uh [73:04] capabilities and how are the [73:06] calculations man like when when an [73:08] archaeologist finds a site like gole go [73:11] Quebec tee how do they correlate the [73:13] construction of the site with the [73:15] constellations well first off Mo most [73:17] archaeologists don't do that at all [73:19] because they just don't do astronomy [73:20] they don't get it their their eyes are [73:22] on the ground at their feet twoin [73:25] astronomy is not relevant to them they [73:27] project that onto the past and imagine [73:28] that it was not relevant to the past and [73:30] that's one of the big mistakes I think [73:31] that archaeology makes there are people [73:33] called archo astronomers uh who are [73:35] looking at the astronomy of ancient [73:37] cultures and some of them have done very [73:39] good work but really there there are [73:41] certain key indicators um the alignment [73:44] of the site what's it pointing at and [73:46] does that alignment change down the ages [73:49] um you can sometimes establish that that [73:51] a particular axis of a particular temple [73:53] in Egypt for example was shifted over a [73:56] period of 2 or 3,000 years several times [73:59] and why because they were tracking the [74:01] changing Rising point of the star serus [74:04] which they connected in their system of [74:07] ideas to the Goddess Isis they were [74:09] tracking that Rising point which changes [74:12] because of changes in in the sky I mean [74:14] long story short the Earth wobbles on [74:16] its axis and that since the Earth is our [74:18] viewing platform from which we observe [74:20] the Stars changes of orientation of the [74:23] Earth in space do change the rising [74:25] times of particular stars at particular [74:27] times of year and and this was clearly [74:30] tracked by the Ancients so you can say [74:32] that if you find anywhere a monument [74:34] that is perfectly aligned to true north [74:36] south east and west you can be [74:38] absolutely sure that astronomers were [74:40] involved if it's tracking the Rising Sun [74:42] on the Spring Equinox or on the winter [74:44] or summer solstice astronomers were [74:46] there they were right there when they [74:47] met they made that Monument well that's [74:49] one of the scariest or not the scariest [74:51] but most astounding things when you [74:52] consider the Ancients that they had an [74:54] an understand understanding of the [74:55] procession of the equinoxes exactly [74:57] which is what was a 26,000 year cycle [75:00] 26,000 year cycle [75:02] 25,920 years how how did they very long [75:06] very precise observations and the motive [75:10] to make those observations that this was [75:12] important to them and they sought to [75:14] pass down that importance to to us um [75:17] very important work by two historians of [75:20] science called Giorgio de santiana and [75:23] hea vend back in the they wrote a book [75:25] called Hamlet's Mill which tracks this [75:28] ancient knowledge of procession and they [75:29] trace it back and this was very [75:31] politically uncorrect at that time [75:32] because Georgio Sano de santiano was the [75:35] professor of the history of science at [75:37] MIT they trace it back to what they call [75:40] some almost unbelievable civilization of [75:43] prehistoric Antiquity that made this OB [75:46] they found the data encoded in myths and [75:49] traditions all around the world and I I [75:52] do go into this in magicians of the gods [75:53] they they found it in as though the data [75:56] were so important that it had to be [75:58] passed down to the Future so the numbers [76:00] that relate to procession of the [76:02] equinoxes and they're all based on the [76:03] number 72 and multiples of that number [76:06] why because it takes 72 years for one [76:09] degree of processional change to unfold [76:12] and that's like holding your finger up [76:14] to the Horizon that one degree is just [76:16] that one finger width of change on the [76:18] horizon very precise observations are [76:20] needed to do it it's encoded in myth and [76:22] traditions and it looks like somebody [76:25] at some point decided this information [76:27] is so important we must make sure that [76:30] it stays permanently in human culture so [76:32] what we're going to do is we're going to [76:34] encode it in Great stories and those [76:37] stories can then be passed on by [76:38] storytellers who will have an ethic that [76:41] they must tell the story true it doesn't [76:43] matter whether they understand the [76:45] scientific information in the story or [76:47] not all that matters is that they pass [76:49] it on and so in the oldest myths and [76:51] traditions of mankind we have compelling [76:53] evidence for scientific knowledge of the [76:55] phenomenon that we call the procession [76:57] of the equinoxes today which has been [76:58] referred to by by um in Hamlet's Mill as [77:01] the great year the great year the great [77:03] year which is the full cycle [77:06] 25,920 years a great circle in the [77:09] heavens it's very evident if you've got [77:12] thousands of years to watch the sky it's [77:14] very evident at the pole um our pole [77:16] star presently is Polaris and that's [77:19] just simply because the extended North [77:21] Pole of the earth points most directly [77:23] at that particular star in the sky uh [77:26] but it hasn't always pointed at Polaris [77:28] because of the wobble on the axis of the [77:30] earth and it won't always point at [77:32] Polaris in the future the pole star [77:34] changes but you need to observe the [77:36] skies for very long periods of time keep [77:38] detailed records to get to grips with [77:40] this phenomenon this therefore testifies [77:42] to the fact that some ancient culture [77:45] was doing this in a very systematic way [77:48] it's like a ghostly fingerprint of of an [77:50] advanced scientific knowledge impressed [77:53] upon the oldest myth and traditions of [77:55] our planet has it been I'm sorry is it [77:58] has it been accepted that things like [78:00] the Mayan temples were were built to [78:02] mirror the constellations is that [78:03] accepted [78:05] by it is it is accepted because we know [78:07] that the Maya were were an astronomical [78:09] culture and it is it is accepted that [78:11] they were building their their their [78:13] temples in connection to the sky and the [78:16] whole phenomenon of the Mayan calendar [78:18] um you know which we all heard a lot [78:20] about in in in [78:22] 2012 uh is is another Factor to take [78:25] into account the Mayan calendar in my [78:26] view is another artifact of A Lost [78:28] Civilization this is that that was [78:30] handed down from a former people perhaps [78:33] to the Alx and then to the the Maya who [78:36] who succeeded them it's it's accepted [78:39] but the implications of it are not are [78:41] not taken properly into account remember [78:44] 21st of December 2012 there was all that [78:47] fasta nonsense about the end of the [78:49] world happening happening then and and [78:51] it didn't but that's the Maya never said [78:54] that they said that the end of a great [78:56] cycle happened then which would [78:58] ultimately transform the world but what [79:00] it was actually locked into and I need [79:01] to pay tribute to another researcher [79:03] here and his name is John Major Jenkins [79:05] John Major Jenkins has done fantastic [79:08] work on the Mayan calendar and decade [79:10] before 2012 he was telling people look [79:13] this is not talking about the end of the [79:15] world on a specific day on the 21st of [79:17] December 2012 there's a there's a [79:19] calculation behind this and what he [79:21] showed in that calculation is that it is [79:23] the position of the winter solstice Sun [79:26] against the background of the [79:28] constellations and what has been [79:30] happening for the last 5,000 years [79:32] because of procession is that the winter [79:34] solstice Sun 21st of December against [79:36] the background of the constellations has [79:38] been gradually shifting towards [79:41] alignment with the center of the Galaxy [79:44] and that alignment happened uh on the [79:46] 21st of December 2012 but it's not an [79:49] instant it's a window and that window is [79:52] about 80 years wide roughly from 1960 to [79:56] 2040 that was what was focused on in the [79:58] Mayan calendar a calendar that can [80:00] predict eclipses of the Moon 200,000 [80:04] years into the future or 200,000 years [80:07] into the past incredible stunning [80:09] accuracy a better estimate of the length [80:12] of the solar year than we use today in [80:14] our modern calculations really yeah wow [80:18] High science encoded in that in that [80:21] calendar why don't we just adopt the [80:22] Mayan calendar if it's better than what [80:25] we have I don't yeah we're now living in [80:27] the fifth age of the world according to [80:28] the May the day to-day use yeah it may [80:31] not have been that it's probably not [80:33] good for your iPhone wouldn't make a [80:34] good app I bet they have a mind calendar [80:36] I bet they have a mind calendar app I'm [80:38] sure they do you you can think of one [80:40] one one half of a degree Graham said one [80:43] degree every 72 years right one degree [80:46] within the great year is like one day [80:49] out of the great year right so you could [80:51] think of 72 years as basically being a [80:53] human life so so an average human life [80:56] is roughly like a day of the great year [80:59] that's one way one perspective that's [81:01] interesting yeah yeah now what he said [81:04] about the window is because you know you [81:06] can't define the center of the Galaxy [81:08] with an exact precise Point there's a [81:11] diffuse area there and every 72 years [81:15] the the the the spring point is moving [81:18] one degree which is twice the diameter [81:22] of a full moon full moon is a half [81:24] degree right and I think that possibly [81:27] one of the importances of monitoring um [81:30] because you can't really you know you [81:31] can't go out and look at the sun you [81:34] know and say okay here's the sun [81:35] relative to this backdrop of this [81:38] constellation however you can look at a [81:40] a full lunar eclipse um and then you you [81:44] will know that the sun is 180° around so [81:48] by monitoring lunar eclipses you can [81:51] actually position the sun quite [81:54] precisely and know where it is in the [81:57] sky because obviously you can't go out [81:59] and look at the Sun and see what stars [82:03] it's it's related to right right but [82:05] during a lunar eclipse a lunar eclipse [82:08] it's 180° MH almost precisely on the [82:11] other side of the Earth from the from [82:13] the Sun so can can I just just jump in [82:16] for a second because I have a an image [82:18] here I don't know if we can get go back [82:20] and it's and it's this image on on on [82:22] this side it's a pillar with Rich carved [82:25] uh showing a is that pillar 14 pillar 43 [82:29] in enclosure D now I'm I'm not going to [82:31] go into it in detail now I've seen that [82:33] online Jamie will find images online I [82:36] just want to I just want to make the [82:37] point and I I I go into this in in this [82:40] book magicians of the gods that that [82:42] that appears to be a diagram of the sky [82:46] at the winter solstice in our Epoch this [82:50] this the round dot above the vulture's [82:52] wing the round circle represents the Sun [82:56] and what we're looking at is an ancient [82:58] constellation diagram the constellations [83:00] that we call Sagittarius and Scorpio uh [83:04] stand on either side of the galactic [83:06] center of the of the dark rift at the [83:09] heart of the Milky Way which the Maya [83:10] saw as the womb of cosmic rebirth and [83:13] it's precisely that image that is [83:15] depicted there I back it up chapter and [83:16] verse in the book you'll just have to [83:18] take my is that why we see the Scorpion [83:20] below yeah there's a there's an ancient [83:22] memory that there should be a scorpion [83:23] in that area of the sky and it's [83:25] impressed here on this on this on this [83:27] on this pillar and what are the other [83:29] constellation Clues well the the up on [83:32] the right uh you'll see first of all see [83:35] the vulture with its wings outstretched [83:36] and the sun over the wing then go right [83:38] of there you'll see a bird uh that's [83:41] that small bird is actually the head of [83:43] our constellation of Scorpio the tail of [83:45] our constellation of Scorpio overlaps [83:47] the Scorpion uh underneath the pillar [83:49] but go above the small bird and you'll [83:51] see a serpent there a a snake and beside [83:55] it another bird that looks like a [83:58] penis those represent we call those [84:01] yours maybe we call those constellations [84:02] today ofus the serpent holder which is [84:06] the represented by the bird there and we [84:08] call the serpent constellation serpens [84:12] um other other constellations are are [84:14] are also involved uh it this is spooky [84:16] and and and Eerie uh because it appears [84:19] there's overwhelming evidence that the [84:21] people who made gockley had a profound [84:23] knowledge of procession and it appears [84:26] that they deliberately sent forward into [84:28] time in this time capsule a picture of [84:31] the sky in our age and that is a [84:35] staggering possibility that that I [84:38] investigate I don't understand how it's [84:39] in our age well it's only at the winter [84:42] solstice in our age that the sun [84:47] sits over the center of the Galaxy the [84:50] winter solstice in the area that the [84:51] ancient [84:53] Maya called called The Cosmic womb [84:55] there's a dark rift in the Milky Way at [84:58] that point and they saw that as the [85:00] cosmic womb so it symbolizes a moment of [85:03] rebirth and the evidence is that they'd [85:05] been tracking the movement of the sun on [85:07] the winter solstice which is also the [85:08] end of the year and the rebirth of the [85:10] new year they've been tracking it to the [85:13] point where they could project forward [85:15] and they could envisage the sky in our [85:17] Epoch today the Maya could do that and [85:19] what I'm suggesting is that's done at [85:20] gocke as well wow it's very hard for me [85:23] to interpret the this I'm seeing the [85:25] vulture playing basketball trying to get [85:28] away from the Scorpion and there's a [85:29] penis trying to attack him yeah I'm not [85:32] exactly sure no the the the photograph [85:35] alone that's just the that's just the [85:36] heart of the mystery you have to get [85:38] into the logic of it and compare it with [85:40] the existing constellations and I've [85:41] tried to do that in well it's also [85:43] fascinating that all of these images [85:44] were carved in 3D relief so instead of [85:47] being what that means is instead of [85:49] being drawn like into like you know [85:52] people think about like wet cement you [85:53] could draw your name in wet cement [85:55] instead of that what they've done is [85:57] they've removed everything around it to [86:00] create these images which is a much more [86:02] sophisticated way this this is what's [86:04] called high high relief um interestingly [86:06] you can see at the top of the pillar [86:08] there are three that look things that [86:09] look like handbags that symbol crops up [86:12] all over the world it crops up in Mexico [86:14] it crops up in Mesopotamia it crops up [86:16] in India everywhere and again I think [86:19] we're looking at at symbolism that goes [86:22] back to a very remote period which we [86:24] know is at least as old as 11,000 maybe [86:26] what they're trying to say is that [86:27] shopping will be the end of us all I [86:29] think those bags held their [86:31] stash really and and I'm half serious [86:35] because this is this is another issue [86:37] that that is ignored by the mainstream [86:39] is the use of psychedelics in ancient [86:41] civilizations was fundamental to the [86:44] quality of those civilizations and this [86:45] is another area we're in ideological [86:47] denial about because the powers that be [86:49] in our society don't like psychedelics [86:52] they don't want ancient cultures to have [86:53] liked the mind there and they just [86:55] ignore the evidence for that I think [86:57] it's one of the main points of view that [87:00] uh when you don't consider them it makes [87:04] me really reluctant to listen to a lot [87:07] of the other things you have to say [87:09] because it's it's undeniable the impact [87:12] those things have on human consciousness [87:14] and it's also undeniable that many many [87:16] many civilizations use them as a part of [87:19] their spiritual rituals and the fact [87:22] that this is not thought of as an [87:24] important aspect of our history when all [87:27] it means to me is the people that are [87:29] talking about it haven't experienced [87:30] them exactly that's the problem only the [87:32] archaeologists who are the entrusted [87:35] with interpreting our past to us [87:39] unfortunately most of them have never [87:40] taken a psychedelic in their life they [87:42] don't gra them and and go look I just [87:43] need 15 minutes of your time one DMT [87:46] trip 15 minutes and the whole thing will [87:48] be so much clearer to you so much [87:50] clearer exactly it's I think it's an [87:53] important experience for archaeologists [87:55] to have because it was a universal [87:57] experience in the ancient world we [87:59] demonize psychedelics today and we we [88:02] pretend that they are just totally [88:04] negative things but in the ancient world [88:06] they were revered and enshrined they [88:08] were the heart of the ancient Mysteries [88:10] the ucini mysteries in ancient Greece [88:12] used a potion related to LSD which [88:15] brought about a revelation for the [88:17] initiates changed their lives just in [88:19] the way that a powerful psychedelic trip [88:21] can change our lives today so just like [88:23] writing about history and the origins of [88:25] civilization without taking account of [88:27] whoops this gigantic cataclysm that [88:30] happened 12,800 years ago that's a [88:32] mistake that Archaeology is making the [88:33] other mistake they're making is they're [88:35] not considering the role of Altered [88:37] States Of Consciousness in ancient [88:38] civilizations ideological [88:41] blinders keep us from looking at [88:43] possibilities I don't know whether or [88:45] not that's stash or whether that's just [88:46] chicks handbag like it's saying shopping [88:49] it's malls malls will ruin us all that's [88:51] what the weird thing is the weird thing [88:53] is that it's all that that this [88:54] symbolism is all over the world what if [88:56] goley Tapley was a mall [88:58] what that's now you may have something [89:01] there um the symbolism of these purses [89:04] yeah this yeah it's found all over the [89:05] world for example um I we'd have to find [89:08] a an image but there's a the earliest [89:11] image of the figure known as qual coatal [89:15] in Mexico uh survives from uh the alch [89:19] area of the Gulf of Mexico um and it was [89:23] found at a site called laventa uh along [89:26] with a lot of other buried Stone [89:28] artifacts and it shows a man sitting [89:31] within the coils of a serpent and that [89:33] serpent has a Crest on its head because [89:35] that's what qual coatl means it means a [89:37] feathered serpent and that man is [89:39] holding one of those bags just the same [89:42] as really W the saman fish man the O [89:46] Anis the the wanad Dappa the the [89:49] originator of civilization in Su ancient [89:52] ancient Sumer according to their [89:54] mythology he's always depicted holding [89:56] one of these bags as well so I find [89:59] myself wondering are we looking at the [90:01] symbolism of some ancient Brotherhood [90:04] you know who passed around the world [90:06] seeding civilizations and that this was [90:09] the equivalent of their I don't know [90:10] their Masonic handshake or something [90:12] this was their Badge of recognition this [90:13] bag that They Carried well it's just [90:15] speculation right it's it's p [90:17] speculation interesting it's pure [90:18] speculation but so because of the fact [90:21] that we they they've accepted that the [90:23] mind [90:24] temples are aligned with the [90:27] constellations have they decided to look [90:30] at other archaeological discoveries in [90:33] the same light or is this something [90:36] there are there is a specialized [90:37] subdivision of archaeology which is [90:39] called archaeoastronomers these an [90:41] accepted subdivision accepted [90:43] subdivision these are these are [90:44] archaeologists who've been trained in [90:46] astronomy but they've also been trained [90:48] in the fundamental dogmas of the [90:50] discipline of archaeology which is that [90:52] there can be no Lost Civilization ation [90:54] that archaeology has already told pretty [90:57] much the full story of humanity and that [90:59] all the Waits all that awaits is to fill [91:01] in the details this is this is the dogma [91:04] of archaeology that is taken in from the [91:07] moment that somebody decides to become [91:09] an archaeologist part of the training [91:10] and actually if you try and go against [91:12] that Dogma as a mainstream archaeologist [91:14] you can kiss goodbye to your career any [91:16] archaeologist who entertains the [91:18] possibility of an advanced Lost [91:20] Civilization around the world more than [91:22] 12,000 years ago will have no future as [91:25] an archaeologist that right there will [91:26] write him off for for for the rest of [91:28] his career that's so disturbing it's so [91:31] disturbing if that's true that's so it's [91:34] so mind-numbing cuz why would you ever [91:36] believe that we've got it all figured [91:38] out where every day they find some new [91:40] stuff did you see the discovery they [91:42] found recently of a large tooth that's a [91:45] a cousin of uh of human beings Dennis [91:48] Soven yeah just re really recently [91:51] within the last few days very very [91:52] recently well this is the thing you see [91:54] the our our story is much more complex [91:56] than we've been taught and and gradually [91:59] bit by bit the evidence is coming out of [92:00] the woodwork well the idea that we have [92:02] all the data of history is just so crazy [92:05] it's just not true and and arrogant this [92:07] is it's absolutely foolish yeah it's a [92:09] very foolish idea and it and it shuts us [92:11] down to the to the possibilities I mean [92:14] the universe gifted us with these giant [92:16] brains and this incredible imagination [92:19] and and intuitive faculties as well [92:21] we're not only rational creatures we're [92:22] we're intuitive cre prees and all of [92:25] these faculties should be applied to [92:28] understanding the mystery of who and [92:30] what we are and I think that's one of [92:31] the mistakes of modern Sciences that's [92:33] just chopped out one bit the kind of [92:35] alert problem solving bit the rational [92:38] reason use of reason and logic and it [92:40] and it's chopped Out All the Rest the [92:42] the the the the capacity of humanity to [92:44] dream to learn information in dream to [92:46] learn learn true knowledge in dream was [92:48] revered in the ancient world and just [92:50] ridiculed today you want to insult [92:52] somebody call him a dreamer you know [92:54] uh things have things have changed so [92:56] much well it seems like back then there [92:58] was so much less information and now [93:00] there's so much information to call [93:02] someone a dreamer means that you're [93:03] you're thinking of nonsense when you [93:05] should be trying to acquire all the [93:07] information that we've already [93:09] discovered that we've already [93:10] accumulated exactly that's exactly what [93:12] it's about and again it's it's ideology [93:14] it's saying that there is nothing of [93:15] value in dreams how do we know that [93:18] ancient world felt that there was useful [93:20] knowledge to be got from from dreams not [93:22] all dreams it's in Homer actually he [93:24] speaks of the Gate of Ivory and the Gate [93:26] of horn some dreams come through the [93:28] gate of ivory they're just Pleasant [93:30] fictions or maybe unpleasant ones [93:32] nightmares ignore them they're not [93:34] important but others are true tellings [93:36] and they come through the gate of Horn [93:39] uh and and this was a recognized factor [93:41] in the ancient world we've dismissed it [93:43] today it's regarded as pseudo science [93:45] it's regarded as nonsense again that [93:46] label is constantly applied to anything [93:48] archaeologists don't like pseudo science [93:52] right there with the label they just [93:53] dismiss uh everything they always call [93:56] me a pseudo scientist which means a [93:58] false scientist and I find that bizarre [94:01] because I'm not a scientist at all I've [94:03] never claimed to be a scientist I don't [94:04] want to be a scientist I'm a writer I'm [94:06] a journalist i i i synthesize material [94:08] across a broad range of disciplines so [94:11] how can I be a false scientist since [94:13] I've never claimed to be one but the [94:14] word is used as a bludgeon or a club to [94:17] beat an enemy over the head and ensure [94:19] that nobody listens to what that enemy [94:21] says yeah it's a sort of a bulletproof [94:23] pejorative you know you throw that out [94:24] there and you're immediately dismissed [94:26] yeah but it's got to be satisfying to [94:29] you going from that original book which [94:31] I became absolutely fascinated by [94:33] Fingerprints of the Gods to slowly but [94:35] surely over time more and more evidence [94:38] being discovered in mainstream science [94:40] and archaeology that affirms all these [94:43] suspicions and then attached to what [94:46] Randall has been studying his whole life [94:48] it really the whole thing just sort of [94:50] unfolds in front of your eyes there's a [94:53] there's a kind of the perfect perfect [94:55] moment in human knowledge unfolding [94:57] right now we now have the knowledge of [95:00] this giant cataclysm that happened [95:02] 12,800 years ago which has just not been [95:05] taken into account at all up to now and [95:08] at the same time and it's almost Eerie [95:11] archaeological sites are popping up all [95:13] around the world that cannot be [95:14] explained by the previous model of [95:16] history now with all of this information [95:19] that you've shown so far the the the the [95:22] layer that shows the massive burning of [95:25] the forest the impact craters that we [95:28] found the nuclear glass the micro [95:32] diamonds all this evidence the the IM IM [95:36] immediate shift of the climate the mass [95:39] extinction of a huge percentage of the [95:42] large mammals is the [95:45] impact period that period is that [95:48] considered in mainstream science or they [95:50] just it's considered in mainstream [95:52] science because it's mainstream [95:54] scientists who've presented the evidence [95:56] as I said all the data you've [95:57] accumulated in correspond all comes from [95:59] from mainstream science published in in [96:01] the absolute leading scientific journals [96:03] um but you're stitching it together what [96:06] what nobody has done yet I I think I'm [96:08] probably the first person to do it is to [96:10] take that evidence and consider its [96:12] implications for the stories we tell [96:14] ourselves about the origins of [96:16] civilization very important story where [96:19] did civilization come from what is it [96:21] and that information has not been taken [96:23] into account at all by archaeologists [96:26] yet I hope they will do so in the future [96:28] they need to play a very fast game of [96:31] catchup to catch up with the science on [96:33] this and take it into account but right [96:34] now it's not being taken into account at [96:36] all you will not find a single [96:38] archaeological document which takes [96:40] account of the cataclysm that happened [96:42] between 12,800 and 11,600 years ago big [96:46] part of the problem is specialization [96:47] and science I think so you've got um you [96:50] know paleontologists looking at the [96:52] extinction of you've got you know Marine [96:55] geologists looking at sea level rise [96:57] you've got glaciologists looking at how [97:00] the glaciers [97:01] disappeared and we're in a position now [97:03] where we need to begin synthesizing all [97:05] this you know what's interesting to me [97:07] though is that it it really it almost [97:08] falls on the shoulders of of the [97:10] Mavericks you know the synthesizers and [97:12] that's kind of really right now there's [97:15] so much specialization in science that [97:18] the next phase of it I think is [97:19] beginning to integrate it to to create a [97:22] coherent model of our past because a lot [97:26] of like Graham is saying a lot of the [97:27] mainstream scientists have this [97:30] information right if I if we look at [97:33] this graph right here and you see how [97:35] this Compares with um the graphs we just [97:38] saw of the climate changes and the ocean [97:41] level rise this is a as it says late [97:44] place to see mortality graph and this is [97:46] basically looking at radiocarbon dated [97:50] uh fossilized remains of the extinct [97:52] mammals [97:53] and if you look carefully you'll see [97:55] that within the range that we're talking [97:57] about right in [97:58] here here's your 13,000 year Spike right [98:02] here is exactly the same time period and [98:06] exactly the same as the changing of the [98:08] temperature the Ring of the sea levels [98:11] massive Extinction event right and there [98:13] it is right there every one of these [98:15] squares represents a fossilized remain I [98:18] think the 360 or 70 specimens that have [98:22] been dated it seems insanely unlikely to [98:25] me that this didn't correspond with an [98:28] impact on human civilization it's it's [98:30] very it's very clear that it it's ins it [98:32] seems insane that it's not like [98:35] mainstream and cons I me if this is all [98:38] fact and obviously it [98:39] is how is this not like how's this is so [98:44] glaring happen it raises a horrible [98:46] possibility for archaeology that they [98:49] have been completely wrong about the [98:52] origins of civilization I mean not just [98:54] slightly wrong but completely wrong [98:58] because they didn't take account of this [98:59] that's a horrible possibility and it's [99:01] much better to just try and get rid of [99:03] the data I'm I'm not saying that it's a [99:05] conspiracy by archaeologists I'm saying [99:07] it's human nature if you're invested in [99:09] a system of ideas so powerfully invested [99:13] in it that your own personality is [99:14] connected to it you just can't accept it [99:17] it's really hard to accept almost your [99:18] generation has to die off before a new [99:21] generation comes that will be prepared [99:22] to just with [99:24] threaten [99:26] ass you're not I said because it impact [99:29] I think you're right yeah yeah and and [99:31] and that's I think that's the problem [99:33] why it's not been taken and Randall's [99:34] right the other problem is the intense [99:37] specialization of our society that's one [99:38] of the strengths of our society there's [99:40] also one of the weaknesses of our [99:42] society that everybody is really good at [99:44] one particular thing that's the only way [99:46] it all works out because no one could [99:47] possibly get all this work done and it's [99:49] all we're all interdependent upon upon [99:52] one another but there's not enough [99:53] comparing notes across the the the [99:55] disciplines and I guess that's where [99:57] where my skills such as they are come in [99:59] that I I've spent my whole life [100:01] synthesizing data from from many [100:03] different fields and that's what I'm [100:05] that's that that's that's what I'm doing [100:06] here it also correct me if I'm wrong but [100:08] it seems like there's part of the issue [100:09] is there's no consequence to not [100:11] considering this stuff there's no [100:13] consequence to just ignoring it they [100:15] ignore it they te Teach what they've [100:17] taught mainstream and they still come [100:18] out smelling like a rose and everything [100:20] looks great exactly and they and they [100:22] all keep their jobs [100:24] don't annoy colleagues it's almost the [100:26] opposite of that because to to go here [100:29] they're actually you know they're [100:31] threatening their position you know [100:33] they're they're they're putting their [100:34] position in danger but I don't [100:36] understand why they would be because to [100:38] me it seems like you would want to say [100:40] we have some exciting new data so this [100:43] is now we have to reconsider what we [100:45] already know you know we already know [100:47] you know about this part of the world [100:50] and this was we already know about the [100:52] place era we already know about all [100:54] these different eras but now we have [100:56] this new data to consider and here all [100:58] it is they should be excited about it [101:01] they should be joyous that there's [101:03] there's something here which really [101:05] could change the whole picture but [101:07] that's not the case it's it's it's [101:08] radically opposed well it just it makes [101:11] your education look like [ __ ] yeah I'm [101:13] afraid it's really unfortunate but it [101:15] really does you see this is an area that [101:16] Randall and I happen to to to know a lot [101:18] about what I wonder is in other areas [101:21] that I don't know about is this same [101:22] phenomen at work that kind of knowledge [101:25] filter which is just shutting us off [101:27] what what discipline would that be are [101:29] you just speculating social sciences any [101:31] any any area of science medicine how [101:34] things are to be done with with medicine [101:35] how uh tumors are to be handled and [101:38] dealt with you know we have we have a [101:40] Dogma right now that it's chemotherapy [101:42] and radiotherapy and and every other [101:45] system is is regarded as what pseudo [101:48] science generally but maybe that's a [101:50] mistake you know maybe we should be [101:52] considering the possib of these [101:53] alternative therapies maybe they're [101:55] better than blasting somebody with [101:57] highly radioactive material well I I I [102:00] certainly think there's [102:02] some there's some things that we don't [102:04] know about the impact of nutrition and [102:07] overall health and meditation and just [102:11] the impact of stress and well-being and [102:13] how it plays on on on health factors and [102:16] I think we're going to learn all that I [102:17] mean I think there's there's probably [102:18] more discussion and more uh more focus [102:22] on that than there is on stuff like this [102:23] this sure sure there is our personal [102:25] health is important to to all of us and [102:27] and this is part this kind of a part of [102:29] our personal health to is it's a part of [102:31] our understanding of the very [102:33] environment that we exist in where we [102:35] where we came from yeah absolutely now [102:37] you got how long did you guys road trip [102:40] together it's about two weeks wasn't it [102:41] R A little little shy of two weeks and [102:43] what what did what did it entail did you [102:45] guys make a video of it or anything [102:46] there was a lot of video shot and and [102:48] one of one of Randall's colleagues Brad [102:52] who was with us uh shot video along the [102:54] way and my wife Santa took photographs [102:55] and you know we've put we've we've [102:57] documented all of this very very very [102:59] very thoroughly but it was an amazing [103:00] road trip for me um it was the first [103:03] time actually I've I've driven a great [103:05] distance across the continental United [103:06] States I've always been in this city or [103:08] that City and picking up an airplane and [103:09] going here and there but actually drive [103:11] across this incredible Majestic land uh [103:15] was a was an enormous experience for me [103:17] and it made me it filled me with a sense [103:19] of just how huge America is I live in [103:22] this tiny Island you know Britain but [103:26] this giant these open the open Skies [103:28] country that they they call it in there [103:29] it was it was a great initiation into in [103:32] into a beautiful part of North America [103:34] and a mysterious part of North America [103:36] and it was great to do it with Randall [103:38] um because he's been walking the walk in [103:40] this in this area for for decades and he [103:42] knows that landscape like the back of [103:44] his hands yeah and for people that are [103:45] listening to this podcast right now this [103:46] is your first introduction to Randall [103:48] and Graham you got to go pause right now [103:52] and go back to the first one Graham was [103:54] on the first one Rand was on just do a [103:56] binge just binge listen or binge watch [103:59] what are we looking at here well this is [104:01] gram um trespassing how dare [104:05] you I'm like I'm watching in all [104:08] directions supposed to be there no well [104:11] since the since the first time I was [104:13] there this is grahe actually referred to [104:15] this erratic earlier um this was one of [104:17] those this is that 18,000 ton Boulder [104:19] sitting above wachi so that was the [104:21] boulder that was pushed by the by it was [104:23] carried aboard an iceberg an ice ched an [104:27] iceberg so a [104:29] that this massive Rush of water had [104:33] giant rocks embedded in the iceberg yeah [104:36] and to float that you need an iceberg [104:38] about the size of an oil tank yes and [104:40] and this is this is sitting 400t above [104:43] the modern day Columbia so we know that [104:45] the water was at least this High well [104:48] actually it had to been higher than this [104:49] because 90% of the iceberg is under the [104:52] surface of the water and how do we know [104:54] that this rock just wasn't there how do [104:56] we know that it was carried by this uh [104:58] well because it's not part of the [105:00] Bedrock it's sitting on top of the land [105:02] surface like all of these if we we look [105:05] here we've got some some other do we [105:07] know where it came from do we know how [105:09] far away it or it's probably come from [105:12] about 50 mil to 75 miles north of here [105:15] it's it's the type of baled is is is has [105:18] been identified I don't remember [105:20] specifically but when you travel over [105:23] this land you see these giant Boulders [105:26] just strewn about there's a place called [105:28] Boulder Park it's a tourist attraction [105:30] now you see it yeah yeah and you can see [105:33] there I mean the size of that and [105:34] there's let's see oh my God so they just [105:38] stand out like out of nowhere yeah and [105:40] we we know this had to have been [105:42] transported aboard an iceberg for the [105:44] simple reason that if it was carried [105:46] within the glacier Mass like a typical [105:49] Glacier erratic you wouldn't have those [105:51] sharp square corners like that a glacier [105:54] radic gets ground off right and often [105:57] times and this thing was transported [105:59] almost 200 miles from its likely origin [106:01] was Mount Robeson and we didn't get to [106:03] this one but this is evidence that the [106:07] the flooding was much more extensive [106:08] than just the Missoula right flooding [106:11] because this is the the the Missoula [106:13] flooding that we were looking at was on [106:15] the west side of the North American I [106:18] should just jump in there and say that [106:20] um it isn't any longer controversial [106:22] that there was gigantic flooding in the [106:25] Pacific Northwest and indeed across the [106:27] whole range just south of the ice cap [106:30] that that is accepted now but the very [106:32] idea that there was Flooding at all was [106:35] hotly opposed for for decades there was [106:37] a great American geologist called Jay [106:39] harand Bretz who was the first to [106:41] document the fact that there had been [106:43] colossal flooding in that area and he [106:45] lived in the 1900s 19 1920s and because [106:49] he suggested that there had been a [106:50] cataclysm of course he was exiled [106:53] by his colleagues eventually his data [106:56] prevailed and he was awarded the Penrose [106:58] medal the highest Award of the [107:00] geological geology in America in 1976 [107:03] when he was like 96 years old that must [107:06] have sucked for him and he said then he [107:07] said he said all my enemies are dead so [107:10] I have no one left to gloat over that's [107:13] what he said oh my go but it's so [107:15] disturbing to me that it works like that [107:17] yeah it works like that so but what [107:19] happened you see was Haren bretts was [107:22] convinced in the beginning that he was [107:23] dealing and this is a very experienced [107:25] field geologist that he was dealing with [107:27] a single humongous flood which had risen [107:30] and Fallen within perhaps 2 weeks that [107:33] was his evidence on the ground and he [107:35] was attacked because people kept saying [107:36] well where did the water come from you [107:38] know what's the source of this water and [107:40] he he said that's not my my problem I I [107:43] am showing you the clear unmistakable [107:45] evidence of flooding on the ground [107:47] flooding happened somebody else go work [107:49] out where the water came from and this [107:51] stuck the whole argument for the best [107:53] part of 40 years until a compromise was [107:55] reached and that's the word that Randle [107:57] used moua they said that this flooding [108:00] was caused by Outburst floods from a [108:02] glacial Lake that's referred to as [108:04] glacial Lake Missoula and because the [108:06] flooding is so extensive it must have [108:08] Outburst 80 or 90 times to cause to [108:11] cause that flooding which completely [108:13] contradicts har and bretz's view that it [108:14] was a two-e flood one single event but [108:18] the compromise was accepted that the [108:20] cause of the flooding was glacial Lake [108:22] missoui [108:23] that is now going to have to be reviewed [108:26] because of the Comet evidence if harand [108:27] bretts if Jay harand bretts had had the [108:30] information we have today he would have [108:32] known instantly what caused that single [108:35] humongous flood and that was the [108:36] liquidizing of a huge area of the North [108:38] American ice cap instantly and the [108:41] floods that followed it's so fascinating [108:43] that the the obsessions of a few people [108:45] come together like this and you can kind [108:47] of piece these things together on a [108:49] podcast Randall what is this crazy imag [108:51] well this is actually out of a 18 [108:53] century text when catastrophism before [108:56] catastrophism had been completely [108:57] exercised from mainstream geology and [109:01] this was um uh Lewis figure I think was [109:05] his name who speculated that the that [109:07] the ice sheets over Northwestern Europe [109:10] had catastrophically melted down and he [109:12] had an illustration in his geology text [109:16] which perfectly captures how these larg [109:19] erratics are actually being transported [109:21] aboard these ice Bergs and you can see [109:24] the scale of the thing and this is the [109:25] kind of you see whole forests are about [109:27] to be washed away here and this this [109:30] this image when the first time I saw it [109:32] I thought well here it is this this [109:34] depicts the kind of field evidence that [109:36] we we've been looking at here um so [109:39] that's why I've included this here [109:40] because it helps to visualize what what [109:42] we're talking about [109:44] um we've got some this was a place that [109:46] Graham and I visited here which really [109:50] spectacularly embodies this whole [109:51] phenomenon this is known as as Dry Falls [109:54] Cataract and it's about 5 miles wide and [109:58] I'm going to show you ground photographs [110:00] and a couple of aerial photographs of it [110:02] so you can kind of get the scale of the [110:03] thing now this was and the great thing [110:04] is anybody can go there this is this is [110:06] on the land it's it's ours to look at we [110:08] all go and see this it's amazing trip to [110:10] see it you could go there Joe they would [110:13] let you in there to see [110:14] this where were you trespassing oh on [110:18] that particular shot that that huge [110:20] 18,000 ton Boulder has is surrounded by [110:23] which say no trespassing they weren't [110:25] there when I was there a few years on it [110:27] so I trespassed I mean the thing is made [110:29] a bassal and my footstep is not going to [110:31] do it any harm yeah I bet you nobody [110:33] even noticed that Graham had been up [110:36] there it's not like a private property [110:38] issue it's like they're just trying to [110:39] keep people I think it is actually a [110:41] private prop probably is cuz I have [110:43] noticed from the first time I went there [110:44] which was gosh I don't know 98 I think [110:47] there was no houses on that Hillside now [110:50] the houses are moving up the hillside [110:52] development and so houses pretty much [110:55] right around it so yeah we're going to [110:56] overrun it and there'll be no evidence [110:58] you guys got to accumulate your evidence [111:00] while you came before condos go up there [111:02] that's also true now now you'll notice [111:03] these that there's a series of these [111:05] alcoves here that that you know these [111:08] these horseshoe shape back on the image [111:09] of Dry Falls yeah back on the image of [111:12] Dry Falls exactly and and at some point [111:14] somebody's going to be able to see these [111:15] images right yeah well people could go [111:17] and Google them online but they'll see [111:19] them right now on YouTube if they watch [111:21] the YouTube version YouTu okay so here's [111:24] a typical Horseshoe Falls of Niagara [111:26] which is which is a modern uh cataract [111:29] receding Cataract and this this [111:32] horseshoe shape is very typical of the [111:33] way water will erode Bedrock because [111:36] water flows faster in the middle of the [111:38] stream therefore it erods faster in the [111:41] middle and not so much as you get [111:43] towards the margins and so it creates [111:45] this classic horseshoe shaped profile [111:48] and that's what we're seeing here at Dry [111:51] Falls now this is just one of the [111:52] alcoves of about half a dozen of the [111:54] alcoves that we saw in the the map of it [111:57] in other words this is a monstrously big [112:00] waterfall yes now dry today just off to [112:04] the left of the picture is is where um [112:07] actually there's a photograph in [112:08] Graham's book taken um from let's go [112:13] back we skipped over it there it is this [112:15] is the Viewpoint and this is Horseshoe [112:17] Falls of Niagara superimposed on dryfall [112:20] so you can get a sense of the scale so [112:21] Niagara Falls is a tiny tiny little [112:23] thing by comparison with this ancient [112:26] fossilized waterfall which dates back [112:28] 12,800 years Niagra Falls is the result [112:31] of 12,000 or more years of work of the [112:33] river Dry Falls between upper and lower [112:36] Gran koui in Washington state is the [112:38] result of two weeks of flooding what [112:41] yeah and for people try to explain this [112:44] for people that are listening because [112:46] it's it's probably 10 times bigger plus [112:49] more than that how many how many times [112:50] bigger it's two and a half times as high [112:52] and well figure this the the discharge [112:55] over of the Niagara River over the falls [112:57] is a couple hundred thousand cubic feet [112:59] per second [113:00] maximum the the discharge over Grand [113:03] koui was somewhere between 300 and 400 [113:05] million cubic feet per second or in [113:07] other words somewhere between 10 and 20 [113:10] times the combined flow of every river [113:13] on Earth flowing all at once and the [113:16] height of this scarp face here this [113:19] Cliff is about 400 ft the water coming [113:22] over was about 400 ft deep so if you are [113:27] here visualiz see witnessing this at the [113:30] peak of the flood you wouldn't in fact [113:31] even see a waterfall what you would see [113:33] is this massive 10mile wide turgid River [113:38] choked with icebergs and debris and [113:40] whole forests rer flowing at what 60 70 [113:43] M hour 60 70 M an hour what you would [113:46] have seen here was just a bump in this [113:48] flood and then only at the latter stages [113:51] of it would it actually have been a [113:53] waterfall as the as the Water Source was [113:57] dissipating and as the water was [113:58] declining you would have the final stage [114:01] of it being a waterfall then eventually [114:03] the waterfall stopped and what you have [114:05] today is this fossilized feature of this [114:07] massive and this is only one of about a [114:09] half a [114:11] dozen comparable siiz cataracts we [114:14] didn't get to see potholes or Frenchmen [114:16] [ __ ] next time perhaps so many others [114:18] I I'd urge anybody listening to this if [114:21] you can do so get up to Washington State [114:23] and go visit upper and lower gr koui [114:25] it's it's a stunning a stunning [114:26] landscape it's a great trip to make and [114:28] and and you can see the evidence on your [114:30] on the ground and you know people don't [114:32] know about you know we got like here [114:34] this is Utah and what you see here is [114:36] once you begin to understand cataract [114:39] formation and and you understand the [114:41] morphology of a cataract you look at [114:43] something like this and what you're [114:44] looking at is cataracts extinct [114:47] cataracts out in Canyon lands Utah and [114:49] they're massively scaled but no [114:52] geologists see here's the problem [114:54] geologists haven't been focused on [114:56] catastrophism what they've been doing [114:58] they work for the government they work [114:59] for the oil companies they they're more [115:02] interested in what's down below the the [115:04] the natural gas the oil and stuff money [115:06] is there's another Point there's another [115:08] point I'd like to add to that Randall as [115:09] to why geologists are not focused on [115:12] catastrophes uh geology uh is a science [115:16] uh and and Science in effect defined [115:19] itself as being different from religious [115:22] Superstition so the notion of the great [115:25] flood that we find in the Bible became a [115:28] very discredited notion in science and [115:31] and the the by by by association with [115:35] that any suggestion of a great cataclysm [115:38] in the past was seen as superstitious [115:41] Behavior to be shunned completely by the [115:44] squeaky clean shiny new Sciences who [115:46] must never take that into account so any [115:48] geologist who dares to propose a [115:51] cataclysmic episode is up against that [115:54] right away that his colleagues don't [115:55] want to go there because they're afraid [115:57] that they're going to be accused of [115:59] buying into no as flood or whatever [116:01] that's so unfortunate but it's true and [116:03] and this is the this is the problem so [116:05] there's there's catastrophism and [116:07] uniformitarianism and the prevailing [116:09] Dogma in geology is the uniformitarian [116:12] Dogma which is basically to say the way [116:14] we see things in the world today that's [116:16] how it's always been it's never been any [116:18] change so Randa what is the [116:20] mainstream understanding of those those [116:24] those formations like what when they [116:26] look at those the Utah ones for example [116:28] gigantic Utah I have searched and [116:31] searched and I find nothing they just [116:33] don't explain it they don't explain they [116:35] just go oh look how pretty do you think [116:36] the flooding went as far south as Utah [116:38] not directly glacial I think what we're [116:40] looking there has to be torrential rain [116:42] right Tor which which is another [116:44] Association of this of this impact [116:46] picture this huge impacts on the ice cap [116:50] an enormous amount of water material is [116:53] thrown up into the into the atmosphere [116:55] not only water but also mud and and you [116:58] get this rain out which comes down for a [117:01] long period after that and I'm not [117:04] necessarily saying that all of that was [117:06] stripped in one event because the pine [117:09] is basically two and a half million [117:11] years two I think 2.6 million is the [117:14] latest dating of it and there's been [117:17] probably a dozen or two dozen ice ages [117:19] that have come and [117:21] gone to me the evidence I'm seeing [117:23] suggests that the transition from [117:25] glacial to interglacial and back again [117:27] is not a smooth process in fact it's [117:30] probably highly catastrophic um not [117:33] necessarily as catastrophic as the event [117:35] we're talking about 12,800 years ago but [117:38] certainly catastrophic enough that were [117:41] an event of equivalent magnitude to [117:42] happen today we could maybe not cause a [117:45] mass extinction but we could certainly [117:47] pull the plug on Modern [117:48] civilization um and so this this picture [117:53] is interesting because what it does is [117:54] it it it shows that you know you travel [117:57] over this this landscape explain what [118:00] this picture is and where is it okay you [118:02] know now this is um this is in uh [118:06] Western Montana and this is place called [118:09] um Dry Creek and what this is is just a [118:11] gravel pit but what you see here is [118:14] deposits caused by surging flood waters [118:17] moving up tributary valleys loaded with [118:20] sediment and one of the things that a [118:23] strateg grapher or a sedimentologist [118:25] looks at is you notice how they're [118:27] tilted you see how the the layers are [118:30] tilted okay that's an indication of [118:32] which direction the water is moving the [118:35] tilting goes down in the direction that [118:38] the water is Flowing so what we see here [118:41] is massive [118:43] turbulent sediment Laden flood waters [118:46] back flooding up a valley surging [118:49] leaving deposits and then flowing back [118:51] out followed by another wave followed by [118:54] another wave for now for 13,000 years [118:58] 12,000 years this material has been [119:01] laying there and you see that there's [119:02] forests growing over it okay people [119:05] traveling over this landscape don't see [119:08] what's under their feet you see but once [119:11] you get an outcrop like this and you [119:14] understand and you can read what you're [119:15] seeing here then suddenly it becomes [119:18] apparent that the that the very Hills [119:19] and Landscape that we're that we live on [119:22] that we've built our cities on and our [119:24] highways and that we're playing out all [119:26] these dramas that right under our feet [119:29] is the evidence of previous worlds you [119:31] have to understand that what you're [119:32] looking at there is the debris of a [119:36] former world that was pulverized by [119:39] these floods carried in and deposited [119:42] and now a new world has emerged out of [119:45] that and on top of this wreckage this in [119:48] that former world existed I believe an [119:51] advanced civilization that is memorized [119:54] in myths and traditions all around the [119:55] world that is been ridiculed by [119:57] archaeologists but it is insistent and [120:00] the evidence keeps on coming [120:02] forward well it all makes sense it [120:05] really does it's it's all shocking and [120:08] stunning and fantastic but it all makes [120:11] sense I I think it does make sense and [120:13] and and I think it's it's it's something [120:15] it's part of the human Heritage it's [120:16] something that we we all have to get to [120:18] grips with again this is one of the [120:21] things I find [120:22] encouraging about developments in the [120:25] world today is that more and more people [120:27] do appear to be thinking for themselves [120:29] you know there there was a a time when [120:32] we we took the word of Specialists Dr X [120:36] or Professor y said this it had to be [120:38] true H that was so actually when I wrote [120:41] Fingerprints of the Gods in 1995 that [120:43] was the first argument was the argument [120:45] from Authority the authorities say this [120:47] cannot be so therefore it is not so and [120:49] a lot of people just just bought that [120:52] what's changed I think in the last 20 [120:54] years is that that that that um [120:57] subservience to Authority has gone away [120:59] it hasn't gone away completely but we [121:01] don't trust Authority anymore rightly [121:04] and properly because we've been lied to [121:06] by authority figures and we know they [121:08] lied to us and we saw the evidence [121:09] whether it's politicians or big [121:11] corporations or you know or the big [121:13] religions the there's a there's an [121:15] uprising against this and an assertion [121:17] of individual will and and and of [121:19] individual intellect to inquire into the [121:21] past and I think that that that's why [121:23] this this information now has is is [121:26] coming at a time where it's falling on [121:28] on fertile ground there will still be a [121:30] lot of resistance to it we can expect [121:32] that resistance to be fierce and to go [121:35] on but things are shifting in the world [121:38] just as our picture of the past is [121:40] Shifting so our picture of who we are [121:42] and what we're meant to be doing here is [121:44] Shifting as well have you guys thought [121:45] about coming together and doing a [121:46] documentary I'd love to do a documentary [121:48] with around you guys together it's a [121:50] must do I mean it's just like the book [121:53] is I'm sure going to be fantastic but [121:55] there's going to be people that are just [121:56] not going to read a book documentaries [121:58] are so easy you just do is open your [122:00] stupid mouth lay down yeah you know turn [122:04] on Netflix and Bam you know you can [122:06] absorb it whereas it might it might [122:07] happen lazy it's highly visual material [122:10] and it so visual yeah that's what I'm [122:12] saying it's so visual and the two of you [122:14] together we need to crowdfund something [122:16] can I make an appeal it's the first time [122:17] I've ever done this it's a kind of [122:19] little pitch it's a little pitch okay [122:20] I've never asked for this before for [122:22] what I'm what I'm asking to those who [122:24] value and and appreciate my work and [122:26] feel that I'm doing something useful in [122:28] the world please support my work by [122:30] getting this book because that is the [122:32] best way to put one finger up to the [122:34] mainstream archaeology wants this book [122:37] to go away they want it to be forgotten [122:39] it will never be reviewed in any [122:41] mainstream newspaper it will never be [122:43] written about there will be no articles [122:44] about it and probably no television [122:46] coverage either the only thing that can [122:48] make the difference is people voting [122:50] with their feet and I'm I'm asking that [122:52] now people value my work people are huge [122:54] huge fans of your appearances here and [122:57] huge huge fans of your work and uh if [123:00] this is this is the latest and greatest [123:02] I'm sure people are going to go out and [123:03] buy in droves so magicians of the Gods [123:05] you can get it on Amazon you can get it [123:07] on your website you can get it pretty [123:09] much everywhere right yeah go to my [123:10] website and all the all the links and [123:11] the whole the whole background on the on [123:13] on on the book is there I I [123:16] hugely appreciate deeply appreciate the [123:20] support that my readers have given me I [123:22] would be nothing without my readers [123:25] that's why every time I do an event I [123:27] sit there for two to three hours [123:28] afterwards talking to people and signing [123:31] books because the readers are the most [123:33] important people in my in in my in my [123:35] universe and they're they're what [123:37] they're who give me strength without [123:39] without my readers I'm I'm literally [123:41] nothing and I I value and appreciate [123:43] them and I'm on a journey across America [123:45] now and I'm speaking in many many [123:47] different cities and the whole program [123:49] is up on my website on the talks and [123:50] events page make sure we tweet that [123:52] stuff and get that information out and [123:54] I'll get that information out for the [123:56] the entirety of the time you're here [123:58] just let me know where you're going to [123:59] be and I'll let everybody know will when [124:01] you're going to be there since we're [124:02] plugging I'd like to plug I've got this [124:05] what is that well it's a uh about a 4 [124:07] and a half hour presentation chop full [124:10] of [124:11] Graphics um video clips animations and [124:16] it's all you yeah and what is it what is [124:18] it called Cosmic patterns and cycles of [124:21] catastrophe and we can go go to the [124:24] sacred geometry International website I [124:27] think Cameron Wilshire who you know V [124:29] who introduced us um has uh I think he's [124:33] doing a special on it now 33% off or [124:37] something so what is the actual URL of [124:39] the website well it would be sacred [124:42] geometry [124:43] international.com there it is Jamie's [124:45] pulled it up right there so Cosmic [124:47] patterns and cycles of catastrophe yes [124:50] 33.3 3% off what is that all about [124:54] you'll have to ask Cameron about that [124:56] it's some some hidden numerology in [124:58] there somewhere apparently and you [125:00] notice coupon code magicians ah there [125:03] you go magicians of the god that's must [125:05] be a reference I I think it probably [125:07] corresponds um so I I really think that [125:10] you guys have to do one of these things [125:12] together as a documentary I mean I think [125:14] it's just I think someone out there [125:16] someone's listening to this probably [125:17] some cooks that we don't want doing this [125:20] documentary but there got to be somebody [125:22] out there that's legit we just need to [125:23] find them and put it together yeah I I [125:26] want to pay tribute to Randall's work R [125:28] Randall is really important figure in in [125:30] this field and he's very he's very [125:32] modest and he's been standing back and [125:34] and you know he's not not been out there [125:36] enough it's time that people understood [125:38] the Fantastic knowledge that this man [125:40] has and the the the ground experience [125:42] you can't beat that well I met Randle in [125:45] God it was early 2000s right I well when [125:49] when was when you were at the punch line [125:50] yeah in Atlanta yeah which doesn't even [125:52] exist anymore close to 10 years ago I [125:55] think it was a it was quite a while ago [125:57] and uh we had this conversation after my [125:59] show and he's we we're just sitting down [126:01] he was talking to me about the hall [126:04] scene and all these different impacts [126:06] and I I remember walking away from we we [126:09] talked for quite a while after the show [126:11] but I remember going that might be the [126:13] craziest [ __ ] post show conversation [126:15] I've ever had cuz usually you know after [126:17] a comedy show you have a conversation [126:18] with people you know Hey where's a good [126:20] place to eat you know do you like [126:22] Atlanta you know like normal stuff and [126:25] he's just flooding me with information [126:28] I'm like who is this guy well I remember [126:30] walking away from it going wow I had no [126:33] idea that Joe Rogan really related to [126:35] all this stuff you know oh I was [126:37] fascinated I was surprised can I add [126:39] something something there which is I'd [126:41] like to say something about you Joe um [126:43] it's a phenomenon I travel all around [126:46] the world and I give presentations in in [126:48] just countries everywhere and Everywhere [126:50] I Go people come up to me and they said [126:53] Joe Rogan sent us to you we know about [126:55] your work because of because of Joe [126:57] Rogan and I see that what you're doing [126:58] is exploring many many controversial [127:00] areas in your in your show you're in a [127:03] position of power and your listeners [127:06] just as my readers Are My Strength your [127:08] listeners are are your strength they put [127:10] you in a position of power but you're a [127:11] person who's using that power for [127:13] something really good there are so many [127:15] people who are powerful in the world of [127:17] the media who just waste it away on [127:20] trivia and nothing you you are bringing [127:22] new information to people all around the [127:24] world and I can tell you cuz I meet them [127:26] every time I give an event you are [127:27] enormously appreciated well I appreciate [127:29] them very much and I appreciate you guys [127:31] and I appreciate this show because this [127:33] this whole thing came about without any [127:35] planning this show just sort of became [127:38] itself it's almost like I was uh I was [127:41] just happen to be there to germinate it [127:43] or something and I just try to get out [127:45] of my own way as much as possible and [127:48] follow my curiosity and the beautiful [127:50] thing about [127:52] people like you guys is without you take [127:55] away you and fingerprints of the Gods [127:57] take away you and what are we looking at [128:00] I mean this it's very rare when you have [128:02] two human beings that without them an [128:05] entire field of study would be Barren of [128:08] a great deal of its information I mean [128:11] you have John Anthony West and Robert [128:13] shock who and you were obviously a part [128:15] of all that John Anthony West who's [128:17] absolutely fascinating fascinating [128:19] fascinating guy and another guy WI [128:21] maligned a guy who's ignored but magical [128:25] Egypt is one of the greatest DVD series [128:27] to this day that I've ever seen in my [128:30] life and if you've got the time and the [128:32] attention span to sit down and watch all [128:34] of them it is amazing amazing John [128:37] Anthony West is one of my favorite [128:38] people on the planet absolutely [128:40] brilliant researcher John more than [128:41] anybody else who opened my mind to the [128:43] mysteries of of ancient Egypt fantastic [128:46] work and he's a world treasure he is a [128:48] world treasure he's a great great great [128:50] man and I think that DVD series is is [128:55] just one pedal one unfolding of the [128:58] great flower of information that that [129:01] you guys are presenting and I think and [129:03] another name I'll drop in there which is [129:05] Robert Bal the originator of the oration [129:07] Theory he's done so much to bring back [129:09] attention to the importance of the skies [129:11] in the ancient world and what it means [129:13] for our understanding of our past and [129:14] again his evidence also points back to [129:17] this period of 12,800 years ago and [129:19] while we're at it Robert shock really [129:21] stuck his neck out from Boston [129:23] University really one of the first [129:24] mainstream Scholars that that went out [129:26] on a limb and said we are absolutely [129:28] looking at water erosion Robert shock is [129:31] a key figure in this field he's very [129:33] courageous to have to to be a mainstream [129:36] academic to be a professor of geology at [129:37] Boston it was John West who introduced [129:40] Robert shock to the notion that the [129:42] Sphinx might be much older that the [129:43] weathering on it didn't fit with the [129:46] with the picture of history and John [129:47] took Robert shock to Egypt and Robert [129:49] shock went with the data and he stuck [129:51] his neck out and he's taken a lot of [129:53] criticisms and attacks for it but he's a [129:55] very very important player in this field [129:57] well all of you guys are just massively [129:59] massively important and this is such a [130:01] unique and satisfying object of [130:05] curiosity for for me at least when when [130:07] I start thinking about these things it's [130:08] almost like little things start firing [130:10] off in my brain it's so it's so exciting [130:13] I mean it's horrific to think about the [130:14] poor people that lived back then that [130:16] got hit by these massive impacts and the [130:19] the the this the the after math of it [130:21] all must have been insane but to think [130:24] about now in 2015 the slow unveiling of [130:29] all this data and information and you as [130:31] you as it all gets into focus and you [130:34] try to get a clearer and clearer view of [130:37] what could have possibly happened in the [130:39] past I find it so incredibly enriching [130:42] and fascinating it's to me one of the [130:44] most exciting aspects of of the there [130:47] the potential of archaeology just to to [130:50] be able to discover like oh that's what [130:53] happened oh it's kind of aha moment [130:57] suddenly the pieces fall into place and [130:59] we understand what we've forgotten and [131:02] again it cements that statement that you [131:04] made that resonated with me that we are [131:06] a civilization with amnesia yeah we [131:09] knocked on the head and we lost a lot we [131:12] lost a lot and there is that haunting [131:14] sense of incompleteness within within so [131:16] many of us that comes from that lost [131:17] memory I feel there like any amnesiac [131:20] has a sense of something Miss [131:22] whole species has that I think what [131:24] makes this really so potent is the fact [131:26] that there are considerable implications [131:28] for our own future oh absolutely I think [131:31] that you know how Graham wraps up the [131:32] book really is is about our future you [131:35] know and and once now that we've [131:37] integrated this information into our [131:40] world view you know what does it imply [131:43] in terms of of where we go from here [131:46] because one of the things that I track [131:48] and if you could shut the throw this up [131:50] on the screen for just a second I'm [131:52] going to speed through something really [131:54] clear quick here so that you can kind of [131:56] get the impression 1989 [131:59] 1989 let me get um let me just where [132:04] giant asteroid makes close call by Earth [132:06] R's fixing that let's Also let's also [132:08] remind that we had a close relatively [132:11] close pass with a half kilometer wide [132:13] actually bit of a comet uh just over [132:15] Halloween um and the interesting thing [132:18] is that NASA only found that object on [132:21] the 10th of October right and it okay it [132:23] missed us it passed about the distance [132:25] of the moon from the earth that's not [132:27] that far that's not that far but the [132:28] thing the key thing is the key thing is [132:30] that they only found it a few days [132:33] before it passed and and how many other [132:35] objects are out there and half a [132:37] kilometer wide half a kilom wide so the [132:39] one that hit tonusa was 100 [132:43] m tiny jestin CHR freaking me out this [132:46] is a minimum a minimum of 150 to 200 [132:51] times the volume of tongus and when you [132:54] look at the universe and just look at [132:56] our galaxy the size of our galaxy look [132:59] at our solar system the size of our [133:01] solar system that is literally like [133:02] getting grazed by a bullet it's like [133:05] getting grazed [133:06] absolutely a bit of your that's a good [133:09] analogy it's a really good analogy when [133:11] you think about it you know you say well [133:13] a half a kilometer compared to the earth [133:16] that's not big but like when you know [133:18] you think think of a a slug from a from [133:21] a a 32 right if I threw it at you and [133:24] hit you with it it wouldn't do much but [133:26] if I accelerate it to 1,000 ft per [133:28] second it's going to cause extreme [133:31] trauma right but now we're looking at [133:33] these asteroids flying in Comet debris [133:35] and they're 10 times 20 times the speed [133:38] of a rifle bullet when they hit our [133:39] atmosphere like you know 50 60 70,000 [133:43] mil per hour and the the the kinetic [133:46] punch of something like that is [133:49] inconceivable it's like said I mean to [133:52] talk about it you'd have to take our [133:54] entire nuclear arsenal of of the peak of [133:58] the Cold War detonated all at once and [134:00] even that would only be a fraction of [134:02] the forces Unleashed now now watch this [134:05] I'm going to go through this real real [134:07] quick here and you'll get the idea I [134:09] think um that where we're at because [134:13] astronomers are looking out into our [134:16] Cosmic environment and this is what [134:18] they're seeing look look at this going [134:20] back here most of us are listening nine [134:23] objects have come close to the Earth [134:25] since [134:27] 1991 right current read that current [134:30] asteroid estimates are too low this was [134:33] October of 2000 current predictions for [134:36] the number of potentially dangerous [134:38] dangerous asteroids have been [134:40] underestimated by at least 20% say [134:42] astronomers according to re recent [134:44] calculations there are between 750 and [134:46] 900 asteroids circling the earth that [134:49] number has changed that report from [134:51] October 2000 we're now looking at the [134:53] estimates are now that it's [134:55] 100,000 uh potentially Earth destroying [134:58] objects that are on earth Crossing [135:00] orbits this is this is an estimate the [135:02] problem is NASA has only identified a [135:04] tiny fraction of what's out there and [135:06] again I'm not saying this because I want [135:08] to spread gloom and doom I'm saying this [135:11] I'm saying this because we have the [135:13] capacity to do something about it it [135:15] takes good willll on the part of the [135:17] human race to stop wasting money on [135:19] stupid stupid Pursuits particularly [135:22] Warfare and to apply that resource those [135:26] resources to sweeping clean our Cosmic [135:29] environment the technology already [135:31] exists it's going to cause I mean you're [135:33] it's going to have to be there's going [135:36] to have to be a a massive shift in our [135:38] attention like there has to almost be an [135:40] event yes that takes place that makes [135:43] people wake up right we have World [135:45] asteroid day right now some prominent [135:46] figures are behind it like Brian May I [135:48] think he was one of the guitarists with [135:49] Queen if I remember correctly there's [135:52] there's a there there is publicity [135:54] around soal World asteroid day but [135:56] nobody's taking it seriously well we [135:58] don't take anything seriously unless it [135:59] smacks us like people don't quit [136:01] cigarettes until they get cancer there's [136:03] something about human beings that we [136:05] don't consider the Poss we have this [136:07] idea in our head that we're Eternal and [136:09] we're going to live forever and [136:10] everything's going to be fine and just I [136:12] just need a new Lexus you know what I [136:13] mean we have this wacky I see this watch [136:15] that I out of my eye on or this laptop [136:17] that I want to buy if if something [136:20] happened if a a massive Collision hit [136:23] China and wiped out like several million [136:27] people and then caused the entire Earth [136:29] to go into nuclear winter and crops died [136:31] and we exper experienced Global famine [136:34] then something like that then we would [136:36] wake up and go all right Russia let's [136:39] talk let's let's get together I'm hoping [136:41] that it doesn't take anything quite that [136:43] extreme if if we had a repeat of Tusa [136:46] 1908 I think that would be enough to do [136:49] it that would be nice but but would [136:51] because there was this incident in [136:52] Russia that was last year that was [136:54] caught on all those dashboard cameras [136:56] what's a wonderful thing about Russia is [136:57] apparently there's so much like [137:00] Insurance crime and so many collisions [137:03] with each other that a lot of people [137:04] over in Russia have dash cams okay right [137:06] I was wondering why so because of those [137:08] dash cams that's how we have all this [137:11] footage of these these meteors that that [137:15] uh blew up in the atmosphere and didn't [137:17] even land but we we have some from [137:19] inside schools where people were [137:22] watching like this thing happen and go [137:24] down and that was nothing and yeah that [137:26] was a fraction of the size of the tungus [137:29] yeah but nobody was killed you see if if [137:33] that object had been a little bigger if [137:35] it been if it's a a little or a little [137:37] denser its angle of approach had been a [137:39] little steeper you might have been [137:41] looking at 1500 deaths rather than just [137:44] 1500 injuries I think that would have [137:46] been a wakeup call perhaps maybe not [137:49] enough to to to reorient civilization [137:52] but I guarantee you a tunguska event [137:55] over a major inhabited area of the globe [137:58] wiping out a million people I I can't [138:01] imagine that that wouldn't have some [138:03] kind of a effect on our attitude towards [138:06] our and our vulnerability in the cosmos [138:09] and make people think maybe there's [138:11] something bigger we need to be paying [138:13] attention to here rather than you know [138:15] um kard realize we're not we're not [138:18] invulnerable this is the illusion [138:20] created by by modern technology we need [138:23] to make a war on asteroids like we have [138:25] a war on terror well you know Congress [138:28] just [138:29] passed at least that would be a useful [138:31] project is is to actually do something [138:34] that could benefit and serve the human [138:35] race instead of multiply fear and hatred [138:38] well see that's the thing these [138:40] asteroids are actually extraordinary [138:42] sources of resources natural resources [138:45] Platinum Group metals and hydrocarbons [138:47] and water and precious metals all of [138:50] these things we're mining from the earth [138:52] now exist in those asteroids that are [138:55] threatening the planet and we're not [138:58] that far away from being able to develop [139:00] the Technologies and the industries to [139:03] actually go in in Rendevous with an [139:05] asteroid of course it's it's it's a [139:07] matter of like Graham was saying I mean [139:09] this last Halloween asteroid they didn't [139:11] find it but a couple of weeks before it [139:13] passed by the Earth so we need a lot [139:16] more um capabilities of seeing what's [139:19] out there yeah [139:21] um and we're developing that but at a [139:23] very slow pace so there are practical [139:26] suggestions that come out of all of this [139:28] this isn't just about the past as [139:29] Randall said this is also about the [139:31] future of the human race and what we do [139:33] and how we how we live on this on this [139:35] gorgeous planet that the Universe gave [139:38] us and and how we pay back for being [139:40] given that opportunity and so the the [139:43] current ideas are to somehow or another [139:46] nudge these asteroids out of the way [139:48] there's about 10 different Technologies [139:50] to do it what you don't really want to [139:52] do is to blow it up with a nuclear [139:54] because then you get buck shot instead [139:57] of a single bullet and Buckshot can do a [140:00] lot of harm as well and it may even push [140:02] it into a more catastrophic orbit so you [140:04] don't want to do that but what you can [140:06] do for example is to change the [140:08] reflectivity of one side of the asteroid [140:11] or or Comet fragment uh you can alter [140:13] that effectively paint it and that [140:15] affects the sun's radiation upon it and [140:18] that would be enough to shift it [140:19] slightly out of its course a lot of [140:21] there are a lot of techniques and [140:22] suggestions or nudges this is you you [140:25] put your finger on exactly the right [140:26] word this is another of the technologies [140:28] that you just nudge these things you [140:30] just don't need you just don't need to [140:31] do much and you put them into a safe [140:33] place instead of a dangerous place such [140:35] a bizarre idea that there's hundreds of [140:37] thousands of killers out there you just [140:39] have to excuse me just move there [140:41] please a little bit of this and then [140:44] also we have to look out for all of them [140:46] the ones that are coming from down there [140:47] the ones that are coming from up here [140:49] threedimensional yeah space we got to [140:51] look that's what we really have to think [140:52] of cuz when we look at the sky oh I hope [140:54] an asteroids not coming our way well [140:56] from where [ __ ] you know the this [140:59] thing is crazy and is it coming from the [141:01] direction of the Sun so that we can't [141:02] see it except with very special ceras [141:04] and that was the case with Tusa it came [141:06] out of in fact if you read the [141:07] eyewitness accounts they describe how it [141:08] looks like it was being disgorged from [141:10] the Sun or being expelled from the Sun [141:12] or was like a second sun in the sky and [141:14] that was because that that um summertime [141:17] torid stream is coming from behind the [141:20] Sun yeah and um and so yeah you can't [141:24] see him if well because of the gravity [141:26] of the Sun the mass of the sun doesn't [141:28] that affect how we see things behind it [141:30] anyway yeah it should do it it warps it [141:33] warps like our vision so like something [141:36] could be coming from behind the sun we [141:39] would we literally would not even see it [141:41] because of the mass and gravity of the [141:43] sun if it was in the right area yeah [141:45] yeah tusu was not seen really until it [141:47] came into the atmosphere [141:50] into the atmosphere that was obviously a [141:52] long time ago and there was not nearly [141:54] as much observation in the skies as [141:56] there are today right these are the um [141:59] the steps that we we we need to take we [142:01] need to grow up as a as a species we [142:03] need to leave our our childhood uh [142:06] behind it's interesting to speculate [142:09] what would happen if we had uh impacts [142:13] on the scale that happened 12,800 years [142:16] ago and I'm pretty sure that it would [142:19] mean if it if it were allowed to happen [142:22] that it would mean the end of our [142:23] civilization this this civilization [142:25] would go down this is a very intensely [142:29] specialized civilization I think the the [142:31] just in time principle is that we have [142:33] two- day or three-day food supply in our [142:35] cities you interrupt that and you have a [142:38] kind of Walking Dead scenario within [142:40] within a week you know it's that it's [142:42] that bad this this civilization is [142:44] appears to be very strong but in fact [142:47] it's very fragile and it could easily [142:49] fall apart and so many of us in the [142:53] western technological World actually [142:55] have no survival skills whatsoever we [142:58] don't know how to survive because we [143:00] depend for our survival upon the complex [143:02] network of society who would survive a [143:05] cataclysm like that would be the hunter [143:07] gatherers people like the hunter [143:09] gatherers of the Kalahari in southern [143:11] Africa or the hunter gatherers of the [143:12] Amazon basin you know the meek of the [143:15] world those who are not taken into [143:16] account in the world at all today [143:18] they're the ones equipped both with [143:21] the the knowledge and the Psychological [143:23] Resources to deal with a situation like [143:26] that and to carry the human story [143:27] forward and I just want to to make sure [143:30] if I can if I can play some part in this [143:32] I just want to make sure that the [143:35] descendants of those hunter gatherers [143:37] 10,000 years in the future are not [143:40] remembering faintly and vaguely a great [143:43] Lost Civilization a magical civilization [143:46] which had the ability to go to the Moon [143:49] which had the the ability to one person [143:51] could speak to another person on the [143:53] other side of the planet magical magical [143:55] powers which was destroyed because of [143:58] its own arrogance and cruelty and that [144:01] Lost Civilization of course would be us [144:03] well it one of the things that's been [144:05] disturbing me as I got older is the idea [144:08] of print about uh books is sort of going [144:12] away and everything is becoming digital [144:14] and digital to the form that you can [144:16] only read with an operating system and a [144:18] computer and a CPU and all that jazz if [144:20] without all that it's nothing you look [144:22] at a hard drive it's just there's [144:24] nothing there just electrons take away [144:26] take away the the software and it'll [144:28] never be read again yeah and what what [144:31] evidence would there be a thousand years [144:33] from now of us if something were to [144:35] happen might there might be some we'd [144:38] know they were computer discs but the [144:40] The Descendants at that time would have [144:41] no idea what they were and even if they [144:43] did they'd have no way of accessing and [144:45] a thousand years now they would [144:46] deteriorate to nothing anyway to nothing [144:47] all the plastic would be gone everything [144:49] it would just be a complete a complete [144:51] mess well that's why I look at um [144:53] megalithic Stone architecture as being a [144:55] textbook yeah that's how you might [144:57] preserve things and another way you [144:59] might preserve things if if you [145:01] developed a mythology around this whole [145:03] scenario and then you projected it onto [145:06] the night sky so that Generations later [145:09] they would tell these Tales based upon [145:12] the the mythological figures ju deposed [145:15] on the night sky and and there would be [145:17] the story because it's there it's it's [145:20] all the whole Mythos Western mythology [145:23] has been juxtaposed onto the fixed stars [145:26] and so that's one way perhaps of of [145:28] preserving information um and the other [145:31] way I think is is massive Stone [145:33] architecture so it's clearly not an [145:36] accident that the Great Pyramid encodes [145:38] the dimensions of our planet yes it [145:40] encodes them you you you measure the [145:42] base perimeter of the Great Pyramid and [145:44] multiply it by [145:46] 43,200 and you get the equatorial [145:49] circumference of the Earth why that [145:50] number though why well that's the key [145:52] thing and I'll come to that in a second [145:53] if I may uh you take the height of the [145:55] Great Pyramid multiply that by [145:57] 43,200 and you get the polar radius of [146:00] the Earth actually egyptologists know [146:02] this but they say it's a complete [146:03] coincidence cuz what's the significance [146:05] of the number 43,200 but actually it's a [146:07] highly significant number it's a number [146:09] that is found embedded in mythology all [146:12] around the world and it is a multiple of [146:15] the number 72 it's actually 600 * 72 and [146:19] 72 is the heartbeat of the processional [146:21] cycle one degree of change every 72 [146:24] years so what they've actually done is [146:26] they've given us the dimensions of our [146:28] planet on a scale defined by a motion of [146:32] the planet itself and that in my view is [146:35] incredibly clever way to pass [146:37] information down to the Future that way [146:39] they could be sure that any [146:40] astronomically literate Society could [146:42] work this out the information would be [146:44] there so in all those Dark Ages when we [146:48] had no knowledge that we even lived on a [146:49] planet or what its Dimensions were those [146:52] Dimensions were encoded into the [146:55] enduring structure of the Great Pyramid [146:57] a monument as the Arabs say that time [146:59] itself would fear the the Great Pyramids [147:02] themselves the Great Pyramid of Giza in [147:04] particular is so spectacular that it [147:07] almost it almost makes you go man there [147:09] had to be something going on we must be [147:12] missing part of this picture cuz you're [147:13] talking about something that would be I [147:15] I've heard people say we could reproduce [147:17] it today of course we could of course we [147:20] we can can you make a stone that's the [147:22] size of one of the stones in the Great [147:24] Pyramid yes well then we can make the [147:26] pyramid but how long would it take how [147:29] hard would it be and and where would be [147:30] the will and you'd have to be perfect in [147:33] order to get it to line up at the top [147:35] the way it sets right now exactly you [147:37] can't be off by a fraction of an inch [147:39] otherwise you have a a cork screw [147:41] instead of a pyramid that's the that [147:43] that's that's the the whole problem no [147:45] it's a it's an amazing device a [147:47] multi-functional device in in my view in [147:50] encoding encoding knowledge but also [147:53] working on on human consciousness I I've [147:55] had the privilege to be alone inside the [147:57] Great Pyramid not surrounded by hundreds [147:59] of others and as the silence descends [148:03] this sense of intelligence seems to come [148:05] out from the walls something is speaking [148:07] to you there and I think that partly [148:09] what it was designed to do was to affect [148:11] human consciousness and in a weird way [148:13] it's still doing socking people Majestic [148:17] structure just being so magnificent and [148:19] incredible that you just go wo but also [148:21] the sensory deprivation element you know [148:23] that you're you're inside the so-called [148:25] King's chamber which had nothing to do [148:27] with any King this amazing Granite [148:29] geometrical Room 300 ft above the ground [148:31] in the heart of the Great Pyramid as [148:34] that silence descends you feel this [148:36] Monument begin to speak to you it's [148:38] almost like it's shy put 50 people in [148:41] there and the dialogue goes away be in [148:43] there alone listen to the silence and it [148:45] starts to speak wow wow that's amazing [148:48] it's just it's such a special thing that [148:51] we have this this area where you can see [148:55] these ancient structures and and causes [148:57] your mind to wander and think about [148:59] these things and these possibilities and [149:01] when you add that to all the information [149:03] that you guys have accumulated over the [149:05] course of your study and your research [149:07] it's a just an amazing amazing thing to [149:09] consider I should mention another site [149:11] which we've not talked about today which [149:13] is Gung Padang in Indonesia uh and again [149:16] I have a couple of chapters on this in [149:18] the in the new book Gung Padang [149:20] uh is a a man-made pyramid um and it's [149:23] been found about 30 uh about 3 hours [149:27] Drive West of bandong on the island of [149:29] java uh and for a long time it was [149:32] thought to be a relatively young [149:34] megalithic site there is a megalithic [149:35] site on top of what was thought to be a [149:37] natural hill uh but now an amazing [149:41] Indonesian geologist called Danny [149:42] Hillman nataja uh has been over it with [149:45] his team they've done ground penetrating [149:47] radar and seismic tomography on the [149:49] whole structure and they've also put [149:51] drill cores down into it and they have [149:53] pulled up remnants of man-made material [149:56] associated with datable organic material [149:58] that goes back 20,000 years it goes back [150:02] right into the last ice age this is a [150:03] 20,000 year old pyramid that's sitting [150:06] in Indonesia and it's one of the most [150:08] exciting breaking stories in archaeology [150:10] and typically because the discovery work [150:14] has been done by a geologist Indonesian [150:17] archaeologists are wanting the whole [150:18] work stopped so this is it right here uh [150:21] that's not g Padang no no it says but [150:24] the the the those are G Padang not so so [150:28] for example third from the right third [150:30] from the left I mean that one yeah [150:32] that's the that's the known megalithic [150:34] site on top of what is now understood to [150:36] be a completely man-made pyramid with so [150:39] this is accepted only by geologists not [150:42] by archaeologists yeah the [150:44] archaeologists say oh we know that site [150:45] it's 2,500 years old there's nothing of [150:47] interest there we would like the [150:49] resources that are being spent on this [150:50] to be spent on our projects instead and [150:52] in fact they've lobbied with the [150:53] Indonesian government and the [150:54] excavations have been temporarily halted [150:57] uh I think that it will go ahead again I [150:59] think what what is the evidence that [151:00] shows what's the geological evidence [151:02] that shows that this is first first of [151:04] all the ground penetrating radar the [151:06] picture of what is inside this shows us [151:08] that it is a man-made Hill not uh a [151:11] natural hill secondly that it contains [151:14] three large chambers within it one of [151:17] them at least as large as the king's [151:19] chamber in the Great Pyramid huge [151:21] cavities regular in shape which have not [151:24] yet been excavated um and and thirdly [151:27] the the date of this site puts us back [151:30] to 20,000 years right to the last [151:32] glacial maximum when Indonesia didn't [151:34] look at all the way it looked today [151:36] Indonesia 20,000 years ago was part of a [151:38] giant continent that geologists called [151:41] called Sunda Sunder land the Sunda shelf [151:44] uh that it wasn't a peninsula the [151:45] Malaysian Peninsula and the Thousand [151:47] Islands of Indonesia it was a massive [151:49] land mass [151:50] and that land mass was submerged [151:53] predominantly between 12,800 and 11,600 [151:56] years ago this site sits in an area of [151:59] high land which was never submerged and [152:02] it looks to me again I'm I'm speculating [152:04] because the excavation has been stopped [152:06] but it looks to me as does uh gockley [152:09] tee like a like a time capsule something [152:11] that takes us back to that that earlier [152:14] period and and in fact when we're [152:15] looking for A Lost [152:18] Civilization I think we should be [152:19] looking all over the world Plato made it [152:21] clear that Atlantis wasn't just the [152:23] island it was it had projected its power [152:26] all around the world uh Indonesia is a [152:28] very fruitful area for further [152:30] investigation and I did a huge research [152:32] trip in Indonesia and I saw megaliths [152:34] that are just unaccounted for the [152:36] archaeology has never been done there's [152:37] a giant megalithic culture in that in [152:40] that island and very cool some cultures [152:43] on Indonesia are still making megaliths [152:45] today they're they're still doing it it [152:47] it continues this ancient tradition so [152:49] when we're looking at this what are you [152:51] what are you guys seeing I'm seeing a [152:53] hill I'm seeing a bunch of rocks yeah [152:55] those that bunch of rocks is the known [152:57] megalithic site which has correctly been [152:59] dated to 2,500 years ago but it's when [153:02] you say megalithic site like these this [153:04] is a material called columa bassal which [153:07] forms forms Naturally by the way into [153:10] into regular patterns the Giants [153:12] Causeway in Ireland is columna bassal [153:16] columna bassal when it it forms [153:18] naturally forms in vertical [153:20] formations it's a very useful Building [153:22] Material it can be broken up into blocks [153:25] and when you see them laid out [153:27] horizontally like this you know [153:29] absolutely that human beings have been [153:30] involved and that they have made this [153:32] site but what's really interesting is [153:34] what's underneath what we're seeing [153:36] there what's been revealed by the ground [153:38] penetrating radar and the drill cores [153:40] that is that is really fascinating [153:42] because that has not been taken into [153:44] account by archaeology at all and that's [153:47] where we need to do this work if we're [153:48] going to recover our lost pass Indonesia [153:51] is one of the places we need to be doing [153:52] it so to someone like me that's looking [153:54] at this I'm just seeing a bunch of [153:55] stones yeah that's what you're seeing [153:57] yeah so 2,500 year old site but what it [154:01] appears to be the case that that site [154:03] was put there because there was an [154:05] ancient memory that this was a sacred [154:09] site the word the name gunong Padang in [154:12] the Indonesian language doesn't seem to [154:15] mean very much it means Mountain field [154:18] but in the sundan language which is the [154:20] language that is spoken around Gung [154:22] Padang what Gung Padang means is [154:25] mountain of [154:27] Enlightenment whoa suggestion that it's [154:30] connected to an ancient system of [154:32] knowledge it's one of many sites that [154:34] are appearing around the world now that [154:36] don't fit with the mainstream picture so [154:39] this sort of parallels some of the ideas [154:42] about the Old Kingdom in Egypt and the [154:44] ancient structures where the new [154:45] structures are built on top of them and [154:47] as they dig deeper into the sand they [154:48] find different construction methods that [154:51] represent an older time exactly exactly [154:54] this is that so this is 20,000 years old [154:57] underneath this yeah that's right wow [155:00] and what what can we is there any images [155:02] that we could look at or is there [155:03] anything that we could see other than [155:04] this um I well I have a lot in the book [155:06] I'm not sure that image above it that's [155:08] an artist rendition what it used to look [155:11] like that's that's an absolute artist [155:12] rendition which I don't value it's it [155:15] that almost takes the form of [155:16] misinformation we need to be looking at [155:18] the real thing there is a there now [155:19] there that painting you have your cursor [155:22] just on it just click on that that is an [155:25] artist's interpretation of what gong [155:27] Padang would have looked like uh in its [155:29] original form before it became overgrown [155:32] but that that is the mindblower then if [155:34] this 20,000 years ago if this actually [155:36] existed this gigantic megalithic [155:38] structure that was created by human [155:40] beings Advanced civilization beyond a [155:42] shadow of a doubt 20,000 years ago yeah [155:46] and in an area that was devastated by [155:48] the global floods of 12 ,800 years ago [155:51] and that became completely different [155:53] from how it was be before that what was [155:56] the area that had that gigantic super [155:59] volcano detonation 70,000 years agoa [156:02] that's another Indonesian story yeah and [156:04] that is Indonesia and that that is [156:06] literally [156:08] where a massive amount of the population [156:11] of the Earth of human beings was wiped [156:13] out May the human population went down [156:15] to just 2,000 individuals Jesus Christ [156:18] that's like a good comedy show for me [156:20] like a theater imagine that like [156:23] everyone in my show has to repopulate [156:26] the [ __ ] Earth sometimes our species [156:28] hangs by a [156:30] thread sometimes we hang by a thread [156:33] that was one of those crazy that is [156:35] crazy the idea that just the Earth can [156:38] have a hiccup and that's not even an [156:40] asteroid that's the Earth itself just [156:43] spits up belching yeah belches destroys [156:46] the environment to the point where it [156:48] creates nuclear wind kills all the crops [156:50] most of the animals die and 2,000 people [156:54] scratch and Claw their way to the [156:55] existence wow and only 70,000 years ago [156:58] so 50,000 years before this so 50, so [157:02] there's been a series of these yes there [157:04] have been a series of these and and we [157:06] as a species have kind of danced in and [157:09] out of them and from time to time they [157:11] have radically changed our story are [157:13] Hubris in creating hard drives hard [157:16] drives and flash drives and computers [157:19] and phon phones and no one remembers [157:20] anything I I've KN I maybe know four [157:23] phone numbers you know yeah we don't we [157:26] don't use the power of memory anymore [157:27] there we don't write anything down in in [157:30] anything that's going to survive any [157:32] sort of a disaster yeah yeah absolutely [157:35] it's it's that's where the you know [157:38] systems like Freemasonry come in because [157:41] here you have a body of symbolism that's [157:44] been handed down at least since the [157:46] Middle Ages and you have a lot of [157:50] you know currently active Masons who in [157:52] order to become Master Masons have to [157:55] memorize a tremendous amount of [157:58] information most of them don't have a [158:00] clue as to what it means though even [158:02] though they're told right into ritual if [158:04] you want to understand this you have to [158:06] understand astronomy first of all you [158:08] have to understand geometry and a number [158:10] of other things but um a tremendous [158:13] amount of of memory work is involved and [158:16] this is the ancient system the oral [158:18] traditions [158:20] involved memory on a massive scale being [158:24] able to recite verbatim things that [158:26] might take you hours to recite and we [158:31] like you guys have just discussed we're [158:32] losing that ability and and this is you [158:35] know to me it's it's regrettable that [158:37] Freemasonry has gotten such a bad rep [158:40] with all of these silly conspiratorial [158:42] things in the last in the age of the [158:44] internet I can't tell you how many times [158:46] on Facebook or the internet somebody and [158:49] they express it as as an accusation yeah [158:51] Graeme hanock is a Freemason well first [158:54] off I'm not a Freemason I've never been [158:57] a Freemason and I never will be a [158:58] Freemason because I'm not a joiner I [159:00] don't join clubs my my job is to write [159:02] books and and if I if I join a [159:04] particular Club that's going to [159:06] compromise my ability to do that I have [159:08] given lectures in Masonic lodges I've [159:10] been invited to give lectures there and [159:11] I and I'm very interested to talk to [159:13] Masons but uh you know I'm not I'm not a [159:16] Mason myself and it is strange that [159:18] there is this idea that Freemasonry is [159:20] is connected to some kind of global [159:22] conspiracy I think it's much more [159:24] complicated and much more interesting [159:25] than that well it's a an ancient like as [159:29] you said an an ancient way of sort of [159:32] storing and passing down knowledge and [159:34] ideas I mean I'm sure there's a bunch of [159:36] wacky people that are involved in it too [159:38] most of them are in for the beer frankly [159:40] the beer yeah but Freemasonry is largely [159:42] a male drinking CL maybe I'm in then [159:44] maybe I maybe I need to find these [159:46] people actually maybe that's in the UK [159:49] in the US there's no drinking in The [159:51] Lodges oh not in The Lodges not in the [159:54] lodge itself but but afterwards there's [159:56] a lot of alcohol goes down I was in I'm [159:59] now I'm out [160:01] yeah well yeah drinking does mess with [160:03] your memory though so I see the point [160:05] but there is a tremendous body of [160:07] symbolism in there which I think is [160:10] critical to understanding a lot of these [160:12] ancient Mysteries has ancient Origins [160:14] well it's one of the things that's so [160:15] confusing about our money right and so [160:17] conspiratorially uh [160:19] constantly debated about the the origins [160:22] of the symbolism on our money you know [160:24] the pyramid with the eyeball on top of [160:25] it and there's so many theories as to [160:27] what this means and that means and oh [160:29] look at the way they structured [160:31] Washington DC and where the Pentagon is [160:33] and where all these different buildings [160:34] or all this is all Mason stuff and they [160:37] want to take over the world and yeah I [160:39] don't know but it's uh who knows really [160:42] I think I think what's important about [160:43] it is that it's a system of ideas that [160:45] definitely has very ancient Origins [160:48] we're seeing a modern man estation of it [160:50] now but it tracks back a long way into [160:52] the past and this shows that that ideas [160:54] can be passed down below the radar and [160:58] can survive and can continue well the [161:00] the eyeball on top of the pyramid man I [161:02] would love to go back to the dude who [161:04] created the dollar bill and go what are [161:05] you doing here yeah what the [ __ ] is [161:07] that how come you just don't say $1 [161:10] dollar you know and have have the dude's [161:12] face and we're good right why do you [161:14] have to have a pyramid with an eyeball [161:16] like what does that mean and what I [161:18] wonder what it meant to them what is it [161:19] supposed to symbolize well I think it [161:21] means the same thing that it meant to [161:22] the ancient Egyptians we find the Eye of [161:24] Horus or you know it's very Egyptian [161:27] doesn't the Eye of Horus represent the [161:29] pineal gland that's a good argument it [161:32] actually looks like the the pineal gland [161:33] from a side profile it looks exactly [161:36] absolutely looks like it and and um we [161:38] know that DMT was available in ancient [161:40] Egypt the ancient Egyptian Tree of Life [161:43] is ACAA neotica which is rich in DMT in [161:47] its in its bark well that's also the the [161:49] tree that they're considering that the [161:51] modern Jerusalem Scholars have attached [161:54] to Moses in the burning bush exactly the [161:56] burning bush being the source of [161:58] divinity the source of of God of divine [162:01] knowledge God being a burning bush and [162:03] that bush being the acacia tree the AAA [162:06] Tree being rich in DMT I mean it only [162:07] makes sense if you try to break it down [162:09] and translate it if that's St if anybody [162:12] who's done DMT knows what a profound and [162:15] life-changing experience it can be and [162:17] how there is this feeling when you do it [162:19] that you are connecting to some sort of [162:21] divine entity in that we have to look at [162:24] this image okay got what you got Jamie [162:26] put it up there well it's a typical you [162:28] find this in all kinds of masonic that's [162:30] spooky giv a chick a haircut well he's [162:34] got Wings you see what you have here is [162:36] a a a a juxtaposition of different [162:39] symbols and they all have an [162:41] interpretation right you see the old man [162:43] father time but he holds the sickle [162:46] father time also has wings how do you [162:48] get wings wings [162:50] well Time Flies what time flies time [162:53] flies yeah dare you you [162:56] notice glass you'll notice The Hourglass [162:59] right okay The Hourglass by the sickle I [163:01] see okay and the sickle is a symbol for [163:04] the comet I'm going to go ahead and com [163:06] spill some yes and I can show you how [163:09] that [163:09] works you know the word Comet comes from [163:12] the Latin coma or k which means [163:16] what long hair right [163:20] long hair star R actually looks a bit [163:23] like a [163:24] comic well so as you're looking at the [163:26] star in the sky and you see the tail [163:28] they they think of that as the hair of [163:30] the com yes exactly so what you have [163:32] there is the long hair right there [163:35] that's a a signal right there that [163:37] that's a reference and I can show you a [163:39] couple of other things to show father [163:40] time is going bald what's all that about [163:42] yeah while he's making up [163:44] for for with his whiskers yeah um but [163:48] you'll notice what she holds in her [163:49] right hand the spring of Acacia M and [163:53] what she holds and and so in in the [163:56] Masonic symbolism ACAA represents um [163:59] Resurrection represents restoration [164:02] after in the Masonic um allegory you [164:05] have the the death of the master builder [164:08] and the raising of the master builder [164:10] and the symbolism for this whether it [164:12] ultimately I think goes back to the [164:14] death and resurrection of Osiris and the [164:15] death and resurrection of all of these [164:18] God figures in history which could be [164:20] dying and resurrecting Gods the dying [164:22] and resurrecting Gods which could be [164:24] taken as a metaphor really for the God [164:27] standing in for the human species for [164:29] human civilization and she's she's [164:31] actually weeping she's holding in her [164:32] left hand a a a cybor which was a symbol [164:36] from Alchemy and in the Masonic sense [164:39] it's in that container that she's [164:40] holding that the Alchemy takes place [164:43] which you might speculate is maybe the [164:46] extraction of the DMT from the occas [164:49] that's what I was going to say it looks [164:50] almost like one of those incense holders [164:53] you know you put the you get an incense [164:54] cone you put it in you put the lid on [164:56] that and the incense comes through that [164:58] right and she's looking at a book and [165:00] she's looking at a book right and then [165:02] the book is sitting on a broken column [165:05] the broken column uh actually that what [165:08] that represents is very well depicted in [165:10] this next image here which was basically [165:14] the lost the destruction of the Lost [165:16] Civilization and that's what she's [165:17] weeping over see she's holding thecia [165:20] because that's the symbol of [165:22] Resurrection how civilization is then [165:25] renewed Phoenix likee out of the ashes [165:27] of the previous one out of drugs yeah [165:31] maybe assisted maybe with some [165:32] assistance little help little help yeah [165:35] so so you see there and then when you go [165:37] back to this see it's all there and once [165:39] you begin to understand the the [165:40] symbolism of this you can begin to read [165:43] it just like a a book or a manuscript [165:46] almost you see and there we see the 19th [165:49] century [165:50] depiction of you know the destruction of [165:53] Civilization by by a comet by a comet [165:56] yes yes and absolutely fascinating yeah [166:00] yeah it's it's interesting stuff um boy [166:04] there's a lot of work in that you know [166:06] is this a universal description like the [166:09] way or interpretation of what you're [166:11] saying is this has everyone agree on [166:12] this no no in fact basically most of [166:16] them will look at it and really not [166:17] really understand go W that's [166:19] in many different cultures the comet is [166:21] the long-haired star looks like some [166:23] sometimes and sometimes it's the cosmic [166:25] serpent sometimes it's a serpent [166:27] sometimes it's a serpent it looks like [166:29] an old dude that's creeping on a young [166:30] girl who's trying to [166:33] read like you know she's trying to read [166:35] he's trying to give her a back massage [166:37] he's trying to be he's kind of being [166:39] creepy that's what it looks like what it [166:41] looks like dude well here we have this [166:43] is a 19th century Masonic carpet now [166:46] you'll notice several things on here [166:49] here what do you see up on the right a [166:52] comet a comet yeah yes and immediately [166:54] to the left of the Comet you have a [166:56] lunar Crescent and then you have the [166:57] Seven Stars and what does the Seven [166:59] Stars usually depict the ple yeah which [167:02] are part of the Taurus constellation [167:05] exactly and and if you superimpose the [167:07] radiant of the torid meteor shower it [167:09] almost bulls eyes right on the right on [167:12] the pleades and you find the pleades [167:14] playing an important part in not only [167:16] the Masonic ritual but in many tradition [167:19] many many Traditions they're even [167:21] clearly depicted in the Hall of bulls in [167:23] Lasco in France 17,000 years ago a [167:26] depiction of the constellation of Taurus [167:28] with the ples clearly marked on the [167:29] shoulder of the of the bull so anybody [167:31] who argues that there was no ancient [167:33] knowledge of the zodiacal constellations [167:35] go to alasco and you'll realize there [167:37] was wow and you you'll notice down here [167:40] there's the ark which of course is [167:42] symbolizing the great flood and you've [167:45] got a lot of things going on here you've [167:47] got the coffin with the acacia growing [167:49] out of it which again is symbolizing [167:52] this Resurrection after the death so [167:54] that one plant plays an important role [167:56] over and over and a very important role [167:59] it's just I mean it can't be [168:00] coincidental that DM in human culture [168:02] has been radically underestimated and [168:05] misunderstood by by our Scholars is [168:08] there any depictions in the ancient [168:10] world of utilization of DMT of smoking [168:14] it of there's many depictions uh of of [168:17] the ancient Egyptian an ancient figure [168:19] holding some kind of pipe uh and now [168:21] that we know that aaan eloa is a DMT [168:24] Rich tree and that ancient Egyptians [168:26] certainly had the chemical knowledge to [168:28] extract the DMT from that bark the very [168:30] word chemistry actually comes from the [168:33] name of ancient Egypt which which was [168:35] kemit the black land that's where we get [168:37] the word chemistry from we can be pretty [168:39] sure what they were smoking um there is [168:42] a particular scene by the way where we [168:44] see another Visionary um agent the [168:46] datura plant um rays in the form of [168:50] datura flowers are descending into the [168:53] brow into the third eye of the initiate [168:56] in in in that image the imagery is all [168:59] there you just have to dig it out and [169:01] and look for it and find look for it [169:02] with eyes that are willing to see that's [169:04] the crucial thing I've never seen the uh [169:07] Egyptian hieroglyphs of them holding a [169:09] pipe oh yeah there's there's many see if [169:10] you can find any Jamie do you see [169:14] any wow so what are we looking at here [169:17] Randall OH just another um version of [169:20] these old Masonic carpets but the thing [169:22] that you would want to look at here what [169:24] the Beehive thing in the lower leftand [169:26] corner there yeah that seems to be over [169:28] and over again you see over and over [169:30] again yeah why a beehive is it a beehive [169:32] it's a beehive yeah it is so does it is [169:35] it supposed to represent like beekeeping [169:37] and is a form of I will agriculture I'll [169:41] fill you in on that someday bees were a [169:42] symbol of royalty in ancient Egypt as [169:44] well you find them all over the Temple [169:45] of KHAK for example in the Masonic [169:48] context has a very interesting [169:50] connotation which would be probably [169:52] beyond what we could get into it's [169:54] another show it's another show whole [169:55] another show on [169:57] bees does it does it I mean what what I [170:01] mean when you look at what it's one of [170:04] the main concerns that we have today is [170:06] that our cell phone signals and uh a lot [170:09] of the pesticides that we're using are [170:11] killing off bees the cell phone signals [170:14] are apparently like really confusing [170:15] bees and messing them up and the Wi-Fi [170:17] and all the waves radio waves and [170:19] different things in the atmosphere [170:20] interfere with their communication but [170:22] then on top of that the pesticides we're [170:24] putting on crops and all these and then [170:26] there's diseases that bees are getting [170:28] we have a serious problem with the [170:30] honeybee population I know and [170:32] absolutely to have that as a big part of [170:35] their culture to have bees as a big part [170:36] of their culture says something yeah [170:38] yeah well one you know what you're [170:40] superficially told in the Masonic ritual [170:42] is that bees are a symbol of industry [170:46] but when you're begin going to look into [170:47] it the Beehive itself is is interesting [170:49] architecturally right you know because [170:51] what it does it has the um maximum [170:54] volume to weight ratio virtually of any [170:57] structure but there's other [170:58] considerations there as well which again [171:01] is is another show but if you look [171:03] carefully right up in here you'll notice [171:06] there's a twin Comet twin stars you see [171:10] the Tails and you'll notice that you you [171:12] know that comets their tails are always [171:15] pointing away from the Sun they're not [171:17] like Trail [171:19] beh like the wake of a boat they're [171:21] pointing away from the Sun you see and [171:24] if you look at this you see you've got [171:26] the sun right here and you've got these [171:29] moving away the heart is a symbol for [171:32] the Earth the sword is another symbol [171:35] for the [171:37] comet so all of this all of this mystery [171:41] uh surrounds us and and and and all of [171:44] it takes us back to a time that we've [171:46] forgotten and and we need to know about [171:50] that time we need to we need to recover [171:52] our memory the the the human species is [171:55] in a kind of broken state right now uh [171:57] psychologically you can see it in the [171:59] world there's there's this miasma of [172:01] hatred and fear and suspicion that are [172:03] just invelop the whole world and we are [172:06] being divided artificially from one [172:08] another when truly we are all brothers [172:10] and sisters and we need to recover that [172:13] knowledge if we're to move forward to [172:15] the future and on that note I also want [172:19] to thank you for another thing Joe which [172:20] is for smoking me up last [172:23] September reintroducing marijuana in I [172:26] had three years of abstinence from [172:29] marijuana and that abstinence ended uh [172:32] when we sat down for our last chat uh [172:34] September 2014 well you seem so healthy [172:37] I like I don't think pot's the problem [172:39] no it's not the problem I what's [172:41] happened is I've completely changed my [172:42] relationship to that beautiful and [172:44] magical herb it's not a dependent [172:46] relationship uh anymore it's not an [172:48] obsession relationship if I have it I [172:50] enjoy it if I don't have it I enjoy my [172:52] life anyway that's beautiful I have a [172:54] friend who's a drug counselor and uh [172:56] last night he was telling me a story [172:57] he's also a comedian and last night he [172:59] was telling me a story court court [173:00] McAllan great guy and uh he was telling [173:02] me a story about this kid that is uh [173:05] that he's trying to help that he said I [173:07] had never met a marijuana addict before [173:10] and uh he met this kid and this kid was [173:12] smoking just massive massive amounts of [173:14] marijuana he's trying to help him in [173:15] this this clinic and he realized along [173:17] the way it's not has nothing to do with [173:19] the marijuana like it's he's got some [173:21] crazy psychological issue that's going [173:24] on and the marijuana just happens to be [173:26] the thing he's using to try to fill up [173:29] to medicate yeah it's not that he has [173:30] this physical addiction it's impossible [173:33] to there is no physical addiction if the [173:36] marijuana wasn't there he'd find [173:37] something else yes that's what it is and [173:39] then when he dug deep into it this poor [173:41] kid has just a devastating childhood and [173:44] there's all sorts of issues [173:45] psychologically always the case with [173:46] addiction it's it's the it's it's the [173:48] the pain in the individual that's the [173:50] source of it not the substance that's [173:52] well we can all we I think we can all [173:54] relate to a certain amount of Madness [173:56] and I know I certainly can because I [173:58] think we're all capable of going down [174:00] Spirals and paths and then you know that [174:03] the concept of hitting rock bottom like [174:05] sometimes you have to like hit something [174:07] where you can't continue your momentum [174:09] and you must regroup and in that [174:11] regrouping you reassess or reevaluate [174:13] and it's one of the reasons why I'm so [174:15] addicted to sensory deprivation tanks [174:18] that that's my regrouping it's an [174:20] amazing it's an amazing place to regroup [174:22] and thank you for introducing me to that [174:24] as as as as well I so grateful that [174:27] there's people out there that have [174:28] continued that tradition of building [174:31] those things from the samati tanks from [174:32] the early' 60s from John Lily to today [174:36] crash in the float lab and and and the [174:38] zero gravity in Austin I mean they've [174:40] done some amazing work and making sure [174:42] these things are like up toate and the [174:44] most uh most modern technology as far as [174:48] fil ation systems and insulation and now [174:50] they're magical I mean absolutely and [174:53] you went to crash right and I had best [174:56] fantastic fantastic experience there and [174:58] I have to say I'm really thinking about [175:00] putting one of those in my house do it [175:01] everybody should if you I mean God man [175:03] you know and as you say with some [175:05] edibles that's the way to that's the way [175:07] to to to enjoy the experience to the [175:09] maximum to get the maximum benefit out [175:12] out of the experience it's intensely [175:15] intensely psychedelic with Ed Edibles [175:17] exactly I'm I'm really encouraged by [175:19] what's happening in America that we are [175:21] seeing the legalization of cannabis that [175:23] that the American people state byst [175:25] state are just putting their finger up [175:27] to the federal Authority and saying we [175:30] are adults we have a right to decide [175:32] what we do with our own bodies and our [175:34] own Consciousness and there is that air [175:35] of Freedom now in in Washington state in [175:38] Oregon up there in Alaska Colorado and [175:42] and that's so this is part of my book [175:44] tour that I'm really looking forward to [175:46] when I go present an event in Seattle [175:48] which I'll do in early December and in [175:50] Portland Oregon and in Denver and in [175:53] Boulder I'm in Denver Saturday night and [175:55] I couldn't be more excited to get there [175:57] I'm so pumped I can't wait to get there [176:00] it's a it's a point of freedom and it's [176:01] also a point of prosperity Denver has [176:04] they they have exceeded their their what [176:07] they had in terms of like their [176:09] expectations for how much money they [176:11] were going to make out of this in in [176:12] terms of tax revenue it's gone through [176:13] the roof is the first time ever they [176:15] make more money from taxes in marijuana [176:18] than [176:18] alcohol which is [ __ ] crazy if you [176:21] look around Colorado you see how many [176:23] bars there are how many liquor stores [176:25] how many restaurants they are serving [176:26] booze they make more money in taxes from [176:28] marijuana than they do from all that [176:30] let's face it marijuana is a far [176:32] superior substance to alcohol alcohol [176:34] booze it's not hurting the booze [176:36] business it's not hurting the booze [176:37] business yeah violent crime is down [176:38] drunk driving is to the lowest level [176:40] it's been in decades I mean the whole [176:42] thing is incredible it's a very positive [176:44] story real estate gone up Colorado is [176:47] proving to the world is that the emperor [176:50] of the War on Drugs wears no clothes the [176:53] War on Drugs is [ __ ] from beginning [176:56] to end and it's a grotesque abuse of the [176:58] right of adults to make decisions about [177:00] their own bodies and their own [177:02] Consciousness so right on with Colorado [177:04] and the American people who are making [177:06] this happen only in America could this [177:08] breakthrough take place it's true that [177:10] America as a state entity has been a [177:12] dark force behind the War on Drugs but [177:15] the American people state byst state are [177:17] unraveling that horror and replacing it [177:20] with something new this could never [177:21] happen in Britain I mean we have [177:23] counties in Britain like Yorkshire or [177:25] Northumberland I can't envisage a [177:27] situation ever where Yorkshire would [177:29] make marijuana legal when London says no [177:33] but in America you can do it and this is [177:35] going to change the world it's not it's [177:37] not because of marijuana itself that's [177:39] not the point it's not about getting [177:40] high it's about respecting the right of [177:43] adults to make decisions about their own [177:45] bodies their own health and their own [177:47] Consciousness that is a pH fental human [177:48] right and we're beginning to realize [177:50] that that's exactly what's been taken [177:51] away from us by the War on Drugs I think [177:53] it's also about making decisions based [177:55] on data and I think in a way that [177:56] parallels what you guys are up to [177:59] because I think people are understanding [178:01] now that we we've been sold a bill of [178:02] goods by these so-called experts about [178:04] marijuana lies they told us so many lies [178:07] nonsense and not only that the [178:08] politicians have hired experts to review [178:12] the data and then buried it when it [178:13] didn't meet their expectations exactly [178:16] well I have to confess that all all of [178:18] this with me started back in the old [178:20] days when I was camping in these Canyon [178:23] lands in the western states and altering [178:26] my Consciousness and looking at the [178:27] landscape and going something is going [178:30] on here there's a story here that is [178:34] wanting to come out and you know you can [178:37] I think that you have the we have the [178:39] potential literally to almost time [178:41] travel with some of these substances and [178:44] peer into the past and see it in ways [178:46] that we would have never seen other wise [178:49] um and not literally but like get a a [178:51] sense in your mind A New Perspective a [178:53] fresh view you were talking about it the [178:56] last time you were here that you were on [178:57] acid right that what what it was acid [178:59] and peyote mostly the two little bit of [179:01] this little bit of that that yeah but [179:05] yeah yeah spending you know a lot of [179:06] time out you know hiking and camping you [179:09] know from from Minnesota to the Pacific [179:11] Ocean and all those Northwestern States [179:14] you know I spent months out there you [179:16] know just hanging in the land ape you [179:18] know living in in in tents up on [179:21] mountain tops and and and thinking about [179:23] what was I seeing you know and um that's [179:26] really where it started for me and I [179:28] think that combining combining you know [179:31] this immersion into the landscape you're [179:33] talking about the sensory deprivation [179:35] which is a way to powerfully go in at [179:38] the same time you can have the the [179:40] counterpart of that which is powerfully [179:41] going out and seeing seeing the night [179:44] sky in this altered state seeing the [179:46] Landscapes around you and realizing that [179:49] a hill isn't just a hill there's a story [179:51] there there's there's some process that [179:53] we have to come to come to to reckon [179:56] with in order to understand this planet [179:58] we're living I think there's there's an [179:59] interesting point here which is that [180:02] part of the technological world is to [180:05] regard uh nature as matter as dead you [180:09] know that there's just this dead the the [180:11] we're the only Consciousness on the [180:13] planet in the in the universe and they [180:15] refuse to consider the possibility that [180:17] nature may be highly conscious and [180:19] highly intelligent that there may be [180:20] intelligence in nature and it seems to [180:22] me what the psychedelics are are [180:25] Nature's Way of speaking to us when [180:27] we've closed our minds and shut [180:29] ourselves down when we've taken the soul [180:32] out of the universe and just turned it [180:34] into a huge machine the psychedelics are [180:36] coming back and saying hang [180:38] on you monkeys don't know [180:41] everything listen to us we got something [180:43] to teach and with that we just ran [180:45] through three hours yeah that's it [180:48] how crazy is that that's that was three [180:49] hours it seems like 20 minutes it was [180:52] probably more than three hours right we [180:53] overtime we're over uh listen thank you [180:55] so much Graham Hancock magicians of the [180:57] Gods you can get it right now on Amazon [180:59] what is your website again [181:00] grahamhancock.com grahamhancock.com [181:02] sacred geometry International sacred [181:05] geometry int I believe is your Twitter [181:08] handle is that what it is I think that's [181:09] right um I'll check right now real quick [181:12] yes sacred geometry sacred Geo sacred [181:14] Geo int okay R thank you so much has got [181:18] an annoying double underscore between [181:20] the and the Hancock well you can find it [181:22] folks if you go to my Twitter page it'll [181:25] be on my Twitter page um you could find [181:27] both of their uh their Twitter handles [181:29] on the post that we made about this [181:30] let's do this again can we do this again [181:32] absolutely I'm aort let's do it again at [181:33] a couple months fantastic all right [181:35] ladies and gentlemen thank you very much [181:37] we see you [181:38] soon Joe I would like to get you out [181:43] [Music] [181:53] awesome