Dennett Says Engineering Limits Force Return to Darwinian Selection

Information, Evolution, and intelligent Design - With Daniel Dennett — The Royal Institution

The Royal Institution

Top-down human engineering has reached analytical limits, requiring designers to surrender deliberate planning and harness bottom-up evolutionary selection to solve hyper-complex problems.

AI-assisted summary of Information, Evolution, and intelligent Design - With Daniel Dennett — original source. Check the original for full context.

Source published:

Key ideas

  • Human civilization has drastically altered terrestrial vertebrate biomass, surging from under 1% at the dawn of agriculture 10,000 years ago to an estimated 98% today (dominated by livestock and pets), despite virtually unchanged human genetics over the last 100,000 years. (13:25)
  • Daniel Dennett frames cultural memes as informational symbionts that install virtual machines onto the brain's 200-billion-neuron substrate, achieving a second major endosymbiotic transition comparable to the ancient prokaryotic fusion that created eukaryotes. (27:55)
  • Human engineering is transitioning into an era of 'post-intelligent design,' where top-down deliberate design gives way to harnessed Darwinian algorithms, directed evolution, and deep learning to overcome the limits of human comprehension. (58:04)

Detailed notes

## Background Published on YouTube by The Royal Institution on May 13, 2015, this lecture features philosopher and cognitive scientist Daniel Dennett. As part of a series on 'Convergence' exploring links between neuroscience, philosophy, and artificial intelligence, the presentation examines the initial steps toward a unified theory of information by tracing common threads across evolutionary biology, learning, and human engineering.

## TL;DR Dennett contrasts the bottom-up, uncomprehending research and development of biological natural selection with the purposeful, top-down nature of human intelligent design. Drawing on the strange inversions of Darwin and Turing, he demonstrates how vast competence routinely precedes conscious comprehension across both animal signaling and human neural architecture. He argues that human culture acts as a second endosymbiotic revolution, infecting primate brains with informational memes and digitized cognitive tools like language. Finally, Dennett charts the transition from blind Darwinian adaptation to deliberate human invention, ultimately pointing to a new era of 'post-intelligent design' where human engineers harness evolutionary algorithms and directed selection to tackle challenges beyond human analytical limits.

## Atmosphere & style The presentation is intellectually playful, deeply erudite, and conversational, blending rigorous philosophy with dry wit and accessible thought experiments. Dennett commands the lecture hall with warm authority, frequently engaging the audience directly through intuitive polling and vocalization exercises to illustrate concepts like digitization and meme transmission. The atmosphere feels like an intimate masterclass, shifting effortlessly from microscopic endosymbiosis to grand evolutionary history with engaging analogies and philosophical humor.

## Bulletin - [13:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZX6awZq5Z0&t=805s) Human civilization has drastically altered terrestrial vertebrate biomass, surging from under 1% at the dawn of agriculture 10,000 years ago to an estimated 98% today (dominated by livestock and pets), despite virtually unchanged human genetics over the last 100,000 years. - [27:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZX6awZq5Z0&t=1675s) Daniel Dennett frames cultural memes as informational symbionts that install virtual machines onto the brain's 200-billion-neuron substrate, achieving a second major endosymbiotic transition comparable to the ancient prokaryotic fusion that created eukaryotes. - [58:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZX6awZq5Z0&t=3484s) Human engineering is transitioning into an era of 'post-intelligent design,' where top-down deliberate design gives way to harnessed Darwinian algorithms, directed evolution, and deep learning to overcome the limits of human comprehension.

## Key takeaways - [00:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZX6awZq5Z0&t=5s) Research and development exists in two primary modes: natural selection, which is slow, wasteful, and purposeless, and human intelligent design, which is rapid, foresighted, and cost-conscious. - [00:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZX6awZq5Z0&t=5s) Natural selection routinely outmatches human intuition, embodying Leslie Orgel's second rule that 'evolution is cleverer than you are.' - [02:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZX6awZq5Z0&t=163s) A central neuroscientific puzzle is how a Gaudí-style intentional mind can emerge from a biological brain composed of roughly 200 billion individually clueless neurons resembling a termite colony. - [07:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZX6awZq5Z0&t=453s) Major evolutionary transitions, particularly the endosymbiotic fusion of prokaryotes that produced eukaryotes, demonstrate that dramatic leaps in design competence can occur through technology transfer rather than mere incremental mutations. - [17:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZX6awZq5Z0&t=1025s) Memes function as cultural thinking tools that run as virtual machines on the wetware of the human brain, fundamentally amplifying human cognitive competence. - [19:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZX6awZq5Z0&t=1152s) Charles Darwin and Alan Turing achieved parallel 'strange inversions' by proving that competence does not require comprehension: complex biological design and universal computation can both proceed mechanically without understanding. - [22:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZX6awZq5Z0&t=1378s) The natural world is saturated with 'free-floating rationales'—reasons for adaptations, such as stotting in gazelles, that operate successfully without being consciously comprehended by the participating agents. - [27:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZX6awZq5Z0&t=1675s) Viruses demonstrate that physical life and metabolism are not prerequisites for evolution by natural selection; likewise, non-material informational software and cultural memes evolve without being physical objects. - [31:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZX6awZq5Z0&t=1885s) Peter Godfrey-Smith's Darwinian spaces illustrate that evolution lacks a rigid essence, spanning continuous dimensions of replication fidelity (H), intrinsic versus extrinsic selection (S), and landscape smoothness. - [36:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZX6awZq5Z0&t=2212s) The origin of life did not require a miracle, but emerged via prebiotic persistence, where non-replicating abiotic chemical processes gradually accumulated stability and complexity before the advent of high-fidelity genetic replication. - [41:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZX6awZq5Z0&t=2506s) Cultural evolution de-Darwinized design by moving from mindless, bottom-up trial and error (like the Acheulean hand ax) to top-down intentional engineering (like the computer mouse). - [45:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZX6awZq5Z0&t=2753s) Words evolved from synanthropic, feral vocal habits into domesticated tools, intentionally coined terms, and optimized viral media. - [51:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZX6awZq5Z0&t=3064s) Memetic transmission decouples human cultural goals from biological fitness, which is why humans frequently prioritize cultural values and creative achievements over maximizing biological grandchildren. - [52:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZX6awZq5Z0&t=3148s) Digitization mechanisms—such as the discrete 4-base alphabet in DNA and phonemic parsing in language—enable high-fidelity transmission of informational patterns across noisy physical substrates. - [54:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZX6awZq5Z0&t=3290s) The historical development of functional artifacts, such as Polynesian canoes, mirrors natural selection: successful designs survive maritime hazards and get copied without requiring builders to understand naval architecture. - [58:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZX6awZq5Z0&t=3484s) Modern technology is entering a post-intelligent design paradigm, utilizing genetic algorithms and directed evolution in fields like architecture and synthetic biochemistry to create solutions that exceed human analytical capacity.

## Detailed walkthrough ### [00:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZX6awZq5Z0&t=5s) Research and Development: Evolution vs. Intelligent Design

Daniel Dennett introduces the central theme of his lecture: research and development (R&D). He defines R&D as a design process that exploits information present in the environment to create, maintain, and refine the design of systems—a process that invariably demands an investment of both time and energy. Dennett specifies that there are two primary manifestations of R&D: evolution by natural selection and human intelligent design. He draws an immediate, sharp boundary regarding terminology, making a tongue-in-cheek clarification: “Notice lowercase; there will not be a single word beyond this sentence about uppercase Intelligent Design in this talk tonight.”

Dennett outlines the profound contrasts between these two processes. Evolution by natural selection is entirely purposeless, lacks foresight, operates with immense slowness, and is exceedingly wasteful, burning through countless trillions of lives on unsuccessful biological trials. Human intelligent design, by comparison, is purposeful, exhibits a degree of foresight, is actively governed by economic and material cost constraints, and proceeds relatively quickly.

Yet despite being slow and expensive, evolution produces unmatched design sophistication. Dennett recalls a favorite quip from the late Francis Crick—formulated as a tease toward his colleague Leslie Orgel, known as Orgel’s second rule: “Evolution is cleverer than you are.” Biologists frequently encounter molecular or ecological adaptations that initially seem nonsensical, only to discover later that the natural solution possesses an ingenuity surpassing human intuition. Meanwhile, human intelligent design has proliferated, becoming progressively more capable and yielding startling implications for how minds operate.

| Attribute | Evolution by Natural Selection | Human Intelligent Design | |:--- |:--- |:--- | | **Foresight & Purpose** | Purposeless, completely lacking foresight | Purposeful, moderately foresighted | | **Pace** | Extremely slow (eons/millennia) | Relatively fast | | **Cost & Efficiency** | Highly costly (trillions of discarded trials) | Governed by cost considerations | | **Origin of Strategy** | Bottom-up emergent trial and error | Top-down intentional planning |

[02:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZX6awZq5Z0&t=163s) The Termite Mound vs. Gaudí’s Sagrada Família

Dennett displays two striking visual structures side by side: a towering Australian termite castle and Antoni Gaudí’s famous Sagrada Família church in Barcelona. Though both structures bear a stunning structural and aesthetic similarity inside and out, they represent fundamentally opposite modes of construction. The termite mound is constructed by millions of insects that lack individual comprehension. As Dennett quips, “They’re pretty clueless; they don't know what they're doing, they don't know why they're doing it.” There is no architect supervising the mound, and while a queen exists, she serves no managerial role. Complex architectural grandeur emerges purely from uncomprehending, bottom-up collective behavior.

```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Bottom-Up vs Top-Down Design Architecture accDescr: Comparison of bottom-up emergent construction in termite mounds with top-down intentional design in Gaudí's architecture.

subgraph BottomUp["Bottom-Up Design (Termite Mound)"] T1["Millions of Clueless Termites"] --> T2["Local Rules & No Central Boss"] T2 --> T3["Complex Termite Castle"] end

subgraph TopDown["Top-Down Design (Sagrada Família)"] G1["Antoni Gaudí (Master Genius)"] --> G2["Manifestos, Blueprints & Direction"] G2 --> G3["Sagrada Família Church"] end ```

In stark opposition stands Gaudí, whom Dennett frames as an archetypal creative genius—a top-down designer who operated like a boss, raised funds, issued manifestos, and directed laborers with sweeping gestures. This comparison poses a profound neuroscientific riddle. A termite colony can contain upwards of 70 million individual termites; though capable of foraging efficiently and inspiring mystical interpretations like Eugène Marais's book *The Soul of the White Ant*, it cannot draft poetry or construct spaceships. The human brain, meanwhile, comprises roughly 200 billion neurons—cells that are individually even more clueless than termites.

Dennett frames the core paradox: “How do you get a Gaudí-type mind out of a termite colony brain?” To resolve this, he cites a friend's aphorism: “You can't do much carpentry with your bare hands, and you can't do much thinking with your bare brain.” While a termite colony remains an unaugmented bare brain lacking cognitive tools, Gaudí’s intellect had been furnished by thousands of years of human culture. Dennett rejects the perspective of the late physicist Freeman Dyson, who wrote that technology is a divine gift second only to life itself. Instead, Dennett asserts that culture itself evolved: cultural evolution generates the "thinking tools" and virtual machines that run upon the underlying biological wetware of neurons and glial cells.

- Termite colonies can house roughly 70 million individuals, achieving impressive collective foraging without central leadership. - The human brain contains roughly 200 billion neurons, each functioning without comprehension of the overarching thoughts it generates. - Cognitive tools developed through human culture act as internal software running on biological neural substrates.

[07:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZX6awZq5Z0&t=453s) Major Evolutionary Transitions and the Eukaryotic Revolution

Framing his discussion as an intellectual book report, Dennett highlights *The Major Transitions in Evolution* (1995) by John Maynard Smith and Eörs Szathmáry. The authors describe how evolution alters its own methods over time, shifting into higher gears to navigate design space with greater efficiency. Their identified evolutionary leaps include: 1. The eukaryotic revolution 2. The evolution of sexual reproduction 3. Multicellularity and cell differentiation 4. Language 5. Human culture

Dennett focuses specifically on the eukaryotic transition and human culture, noting an unexpected structural parallel between the two. Examining a circular Tree of Life diagram created by Leonard Eisenberg, Dennett points out that life originated roughly 3.5 billion years ago. For the first billion years, terrestrial biology consisted solely of unicellular prokaryotes (bacteria and archaea). All visible macroscopic life emerged only after a singular turning point: the eukaryotic revolution.

```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: The Eukaryotic Endosymbiosis Event accDescr: Two independent prokaryotic lineages collide and form a unified, superior eukaryotic organism.

subgraph Independent["Independent R&D (~1-2 Billion Years)"] P1["Prokaryote Lineage A"] P2["Prokaryote Lineage B"] end

subgraph Collision["Endosymbiotic Fusion"] P1 -->|"Engulfment without digestion"| E["Endosymbiosis Event"] P2 -->|"Cooperative survival"| E end

subgraph Result["Novel Higher-Gear Life"] E --> EU["Eukaryote AB<br/>(Nuclear DNA + Mitochondrial DNA)"] end ```

Eukaryotes are far larger, mechanically intricate, and versatile compared to basic prokaryotes. Dennett describes how this leap did not require billions of continuous incremental adjustments, but rather a single, rare historical accident. Two distinct single-celled prokaryotes—each carrying perhaps a billion or two billion years of separate evolutionary R&D—collided. Instead of one organism consuming the other for energy or the second acting as a lethal internal parasite, the two joined forces. This endosymbiotic union created a hybrid entity whose combined fitness exceeded that of either partner alone.

The proof of this ancient fusion survives in every human cell: eukaryotic cells carry separate genomes, retaining nuclear DNA alongside mitochondrial DNA inherited entirely through the maternal line. Dennett pays tribute to the late Lynn Margulis, who championed and defended the endosymbiotic theory against intense academic skepticism and mockery until it was definitively established and integrated into modern biology textbooks.

[13:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZX6awZq5Z0&t=805s) The MacCready Explosion and Biomass Domination

Following Lynn Margulis’s campaign for endosymbiosis—an extraordinary instance of “technology transfer” where two independent R&D lineages merged to create an explosion of biological competence—Daniel Dennett introduces another monumental leap: the “MacCready explosion.” Formulated by the late Caltech engineer Paul MacCready (famed for designing the Gossamer Albatross, the human-powered aircraft that crossed the English Channel), this calculation looks back 10,000 years to the dawn of agriculture. At that time, human beings, along with our livestock and pets, comprised less than 1 percent—perhaps just a tenth of a percent—of terrestrial vertebrate biomass by weight, excluding insects, marine life, and unicellular organisms.

Dennett pauses to poll the audience on what fraction humans and domestic animals occupy today. Guesses from the room jump from 10 percent up to an incredulous 99 percent. Dennett reveals the figure MacCready calculated: an astonishing 98 percent, the vast majority of which is cattle. In a geological twinkling, faster even than the Cambrian explosion, human civilization engulfed the planet’s terrestrial vertebrate biomass. Dennett recites MacCready’s reflection on this precarious shift:

> “Over billions of years on a unique sphere chance has painted a thin covering of life, complex, improbable, wonderful, and fragile. Suddenly we humans have grown in population, technology, and intelligence to a position of terrible power. We now wield the paintbrush.”

Yet genetically, Dennett points out, modern humans are virtually indistinguishable from ancestors living 100,000 years ago. The physical biology has remained constant, but as Freeman Dyson observed, the transformation came through technology and intelligence.

- **10,000 years ago**: Humans, livestock, and pets made up less than 1% (roughly 0.1%) of terrestrial vertebrate biomass. - **Present day**: Humans and their domestic animals constitute roughly 98% of all terrestrial vertebrate biomass by weight, dominated by cattle. - **Genetic baseline**: Virtually identical to human genomes from tens or hundreds of thousands of years ago.

---

[17:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZX6awZq5Z0&t=1025s) Memes as Symbiotic Thinking Tools

Dennett characterizes this explosive transformation as another great technology transfer: “the invasion of human brains by symbiotic Thinking Tools: memes,” drawn from Richard Dawkins’s *The Selfish Gene*. Acknowledging the academic and public resistance to the concept, Dennett dryly notes that he has spent more than two decades parrying second- and third-rate objections to memes, alongside a few near-first-rate challenges that he promises to address in his upcoming work. He assures the audience that “memes are okay and they really do some wonderful work.”

These thinking tools—whether calculus, long division, alphabetization, language, or the wheel—are neither inscribed in our genetic code nor invented from scratch by any living individual. Instead, they are acquired through culture, socialization, and formal education. Crucially, Dennett stresses that nobody had to consciously design them at the outset, just as nobody deliberately engineered the nightingale or the palm tree. They are the emergent fruits of an R&D process governed by cultural evolution, which runs parallel to natural selection:

```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: Genetic versus Cultural Evolution of Competence accDescr: Parallel tracks of evolutionary R and D showing genetic evolution producing biological structures and cultural evolution producing memes and thinking tools. subgraph BioTrack["Biological Evolution"] G["Genetic Selection"] --> B["Organisms (Nightingale, Palm Tree)"] end subgraph CultTrack["Cultural Evolution"] M["Meme Selection"] --> T["Thinking Tools (Calculus, Language, Wheel)"] end BioTrack -.->|"Hosts"| CultTrack CultTrack --> Comp["Explosive Amplification of Human Competence"] ```

---

[19:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZX6awZq5Z0&t=1152s) The Strange Inversions of Darwin and Turing

Dennett explains that the MacCready explosion represents a massive amplification of competence that long preceded any genuine comprehension. Humans effectively wielded these tools without understanding how or why they worked; only within the last century has science begun to unravel the underlying principles. This journey from unreflective execution to conscious analysis exemplifies what Dennett terms the “Darwinian strange inversion reinverted.”

To illuminate this concept, Dennett cites an impassioned 1868 critique of Charles Darwin penned by Robert Beverly MacKenzie, who was horrified by the suggestion that mechanical order could originate without a guiding intellect:

> “In the theory with which we have to deal, absolute ignorance is the artificer; so that we may enunciate as the fundamental principle of the whole system, that, in order to make a perfectly beautiful machine, it is not requisite to know how to make it. This proposition will be found, on careful examination, to express, in a condensed form, the essential purport of the theory, and to express in a few words all Mr. Darwin’s meaning; who, by a strange inversion of reasoning, seems to think absolute ignorance fully qualified to take the place of absolute wisdom in all the achievements of creative skill.”

Dennett enthusiastically endorses MacKenzie's complaint: “Exactly, that's it, that's just what Darwin showed.” He pairs Darwin’s inversion with that of Alan Turing. Before Turing, a “computer” was an educated human being—frequently a mathematics graduate—hired to execute calculations manually. Turing stripped comprehension entirely out of the process, showing that a strictly mechanical system with no inkling of arithmetic, equipped only with basic operations and conditional branching, could compute anything computable.

| Thinker | Traditional View (Top-Down) | The Strange Inversion (Bottom-Up) | |:--- |:--- |:--- | | **Charles Darwin** | Creation demands an omniscient designer who knows how to build complex life. | “In order to make a perfect and beautiful machine, it is not requisite to know how to make it.” | | **Alan Turing** | Computation requires an intelligent human mind that understands mathematical concepts. | “In order to be a perfect and beautiful computing machine, it is not requisite to know what arithmetic is.” |

Both Darwin and Turing revealed the reality of “competence without comprehension.” Natural selection understands nothing; a modern CPU understands nothing. Understanding, consciousness, and mind are not the foundational first causes of design—they are late, emergent effects in the history of the universe.

---

[22:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZX6awZq5Z0&t=1378s) Free-Floating Rationales and Costly Signaling

Turning to the Tree of Life, Dennett clarifies that creatures like termites and beavers are not intelligent designers; genuine intelligent design emerges exclusively within the recent human branch, about six million years down our tiny evolutionary fork. To describe the apparent design found in the rest of nature, Dennett uses his concept of “free-floating rationales”—reasons why an adaptation exists that belong to no conscious agent:

> “Trees do things for reasons, as any botanist can explain to you. Fungi do things for reasons. The biotic world is saturated with reasons from the molecular scale on up, and we do things for reasons. We shiver, we vomit, we blink; they're not our reasons, they are the reasons why we do them. We don't have to know them.”

To show how sophisticated reasons operate without comprehension, Dennett highlights stotting (or pronking) in gazelles. When stalked by lions on the African savannah, a gazelle will often leap conspicuously and high into the air. While seemingly reckless, Zahavi’s costly signaling theory explains the free-floating rationale: the leap sends an honest, energetically expensive message to the predator that the gazelle is in peak physical condition and cannot be caught, prompting the lion to target a less capable herd-mate instead.

Both parties profit from this information transfer, making it an evolutionarily stable system. Yet neither the gazelle nor the lion grasps the underlying game theory. The gazelle feels an unreflective urge to leap, and the lion feels an unreflective disinclination to pursue it—pure competence, functioning flawlessly without a shred of comprehension.

[26:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZX6awZq5Z0&t=1576s) Competence Without Comprehension: Signaling and the Brain

Daniel Dennett continues his analysis of evolutionary signaling using the example of stotting in gazelles. When a gazelle leaps high into the air, it becomes the beneficiary of a clever survival strategy without needing to understand how or why it works. The predator's mind is equally devoid of elaborate intellectual reasoning; people must resist the temptation to invent internal soliloquies for the lion:

> “If you want to put a monologue in the lion's head, the lion is just thinking, ‘Oh, I don't want to chase those guys. I don't know why, but they're just not attractive somehow. I'll go for the ones that don't do those leaps.’”

Neither party needs to understand the underlying logic of the exchange for the signaling system to function effectively. Dennett drops a broader hint: far more of human communication—and virtually all of animal communication—resembles stotting rather than traditional theories of deliberate comprehension.

This establishes the central principle of “competence without comprehension.” Having communication and meaning occur without conscious understanding is vital for neuroscience. Looking at signal processing along the visual pathway—from the eyes to the lateral geniculate nucleus (LGN), through V1, V2, and subsequent cortical areas—vast streams of information are constantly transmitted. The individual neurons involved understand nothing of the messages they pass along. There are clear evolutionary reasons for their activity, and real information is transmitted across the network, yet it is never consciously comprehended by the cellular receivers.

[27:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZX6awZq5Z0&t=1675s) Memes, Viruses, and the Informational Mind

Dennett poses a fundamental question: how does cultural evolution bridge the gap between a termite-colony brain and a mind capable of designing like Antoni Gaudí? In other words, how can an architecture of 200 billion mindless neurons yield deliberate intelligent design that can consciously represent its own reasons, whether in Gaudí's architecture or Alan Turing's computing machines?

Dennett calls the solution the “Second Great Endosymbiotic Revolution”: human beings are essentially apes whose brains have been infected by culture. From birth—and even before birth through auditory immersion—memes penetrate human brains via the senses. They take up residence and assemble novel virtual machines and thinking tools that fundamentally alter the functional architecture of the biological brain.

```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Cultural Endosymbiosis and the Emergence of Mind accDescr: Diagram showing how mindless cellular substrates absorb cultural memes to build virtual machines capable of conscious design.

subgraph MindlessSubstrate["Mindless Biological Substrate"] N["200 Billion Neurons<br/>(Termite-colony brain)"] Sensory["Sensory Channels<br/>(Eyes, ears)"] N --> Sensory end

subgraph Symbiosis["The Second Endosymbiosis"] Memes["Cultural Memes<br/>(Informational structures)"] Sensory -->|"infection"| Memes Memes --> VM["Novel Virtual Machines<br/>& Thinking Tools"] end

subgraph ConsciousDesign["Comprehension & Reason Representation"] VM --> Mind["Gaudí- / Turing-Grade Mind<br/>(Intelligent Design)"] end ```

To explain how non-living, informational entities evolve, Dennett points to biological viruses. A virus lacks a metabolism and is technically not alive; it is essentially a string of nucleic acid with a specific physical shape determined by its sequence. That physical shape grants it the blind competence to infiltrate host cells and trick their internal machinery into copying viral genetic code rather than the host's own. Viral replication is a classic instance of evolution by natural selection. As Dennett underscores:

> “Being alive is thus not a requirement for evolution by natural selection, because viruses aren't alive and they sure do evolve.”

The rapid mutation of HIV since it was first sequenced illustrates this power, displaying more accumulated genetic change than has occurred across the entire human genome since humans split from their common ancestor with chimpanzees.

Pushing the principle further, Dennett argues that an entity does not even need to be physical to evolve. Just as physical viruses depend on living cells to reproduce, memes are purely informational structures that depend on living brains to replicate:

- Memes consist entirely of information, not physical matter. - Skeptics often reject this concept, but Dennett defends it by comparing it to software: software is indisputably real and valuable—as demonstrated by Bill Gates's fortune—yet it consists entirely of organized bits rather than physical objects. - Rejecting the material requirement for replicators is not an appeal to Cartesian substance dualism; it mirrors the entirely naturalistic distinction between computer software and hardware.

[31:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZX6awZq5Z0&t=1885s) Godfrey-Smith's Darwinian Spaces

To formalize these gradations of evolutionary phenomena, Dennett highlights Peter Godfrey-Smith's 2009 book *Darwinian Populations and Natural Selection*. Godfrey-Smith introduces the concept of “Darwinian spaces”—a thinking tool that Dennett singles out as one of his recent favorites.

A Darwinian space is a three-dimensional Cartesian space ($X$, $Y$, and $Z$ axes) plotted to compare living phenomena across varying biological dimensions, while holding other background variables constant. The upper corner at coordinate $(1, 1, 1)$ represents the classical, parade-case paradigm of natural selection. By evaluating biological systems across these continua, one avoids essentialist thinking. Dennett stresses:

> “One of the lessons of Darwinism is you want to be a Darwinian about Darwinism and recognize that it doesn't have an essence.”

Nature frequently presents intermediate, “sort of Darwinian” processes. This mirrors transitional evolutionary forms like the therapsid ancestors of mammals, which defied neat classification into either category.

Dennett examines the primary axes Godfrey-Smith uses to characterize Darwinian populations:

- **H (Heredity / Fidelity of Replication):** High fidelity of replication is mandatory to prevent the accumulation of fatal errors (the “error catastrophe”). However, it cannot reach absolute 100% perfection, as zero mutation would halt natural selection entirely. Dennett quips that this necessary imperfection serves as a naturalistic interpretation of “original sin.” - **S (Selection for Intrinsic Properties):** This axis measures the degree to which differences in realized fitness depend on the intrinsic traits of the entity rather than purely extrinsic, environmental circumstances. A coin-flipping tournament produces an ultimate winner, but that success is driven by extrinsic luck rather than an intrinsic advantage. - **Extrinsic Selection in Development:** A prime example of extrinsic selection is physical location ("location, location, location"). In human embryonic development, far more neurons are produced than survive. The cells that happen to be in the right spatial position make connections and endure, while those in less advantageous locations are pruned away and recycled. While high on replication fidelity ($H$), this somatic cell process deviates from the parade-case paradigm because differential survival is dictated by an extrinsic factor—spatial location. - **Fitness Landscape Smoothness:** A smooth fitness landscape allows small adaptive steps to climb higher toward local summits of fitness, whereas a rugged landscape risks sending an organism over a reproductive cliff with even minor variations.

| Dimension | Description | Extremes / Constraints | Example Cases | |:--- |:--- |:--- |:--- | | **$H$ (Heredity Fidelity)** | Accuracy with which genetic or informational patterns are copied | Must be high to prevent *error catastrophe*, but below 100% to allow mutations | Canonical organisms vs. high-mutation entities | | **$S$ (Intrinsic Selection)** | Extent to which fitness differences track intrinsic properties vs. external luck | Intrinsic adaptation vs. extrinsic luck / location | Organismal fitness vs. coin-flip tournaments or embryonic neuron survival | | **Landscape Smoothness** | Geometric profile of the adaptive fitness landscape | Smooth gradients (navigable adaptation) vs. rugged cliffs (abrupt fitness drop-offs) | Standard phenotypic shifts vs. high-risk epistatic barriers |

[36:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZX6awZq5Z0&t=2212s) Prebiotic Persistence and the Origin of Life

Applying Godfrey-Smith's spaces to the origin of life, Dennett challenges the claim made by skeptics that the jump from non-living matter to the first living cells requires a miracle. While fully modern bacteria occupy the $(1, 1, 1)$ corner because they engage in genuine Darwinian replication, the prebiotic world was populated by quasi-Darwinian systems that incrementally laid the groundwork for high-fidelity replicators.

Before true genetic reproduction existed, evolution was driven by differential persistence rather than differential reproduction. Stable abiotic chemical processes persisted longer than unstable ones. By virtue of their extended survival, these persistent structures accumulated rare chemical alterations—the prebiotic precursors of mutations. Across millions of years, thousands of asynchronous chemical cycles operated in parallel. This ceaseless interaction generated novel combinations, driving prebiotic chemistry up the evolutionary gradient toward the first true replicating entities without any need for miraculous interventions.

[38:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZX6awZq5Z0&t=2293s) The Origin of Life and the Trajectory of Cultural Evolution

Tracing the trajectory back from full-blown Darwinian organisms to an abiotic world reveals a vast, unresolved space. No one yet knows how to chart the exact timeline through the essential dimensions of early life: whether a boundary membrane, replication, or metabolic processes came first. By the time bacteria emerge, an organism must possess all three, but the historical sequence remains an open scientific question.

```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Dimensions of Life Transition accDescr: The three core requirements—membrane, reproduction, and metabolism—that must be united to transition from an abiotic world to the Darwinian bacterial baseline.

subgraph Prebiotic["Abiotic State"] A["Abiotic Precursors"] end

subgraph Requirements["Order of Emergence Uncertain"] B["Membrane Enclosure"] C["Metabolism"] D["Reproductive Copying"] end

subgraph Darwinian["Darwinian Baseline"] E["Bacteria / Cellular Life"] end

A --> B A --> C A --> D B --> E C --> E D --> E ```

Turning to cultural evolution, the design landscape can be inverted relative to biological origins. At the bottom corner `(0, 0, 0)` sits the pure Darwinian process: bottom-up, devoid of comprehension, and relying on random, undirected search like a coin flip where no advance information directs the trials. The termite castle exemplifies this baseline. At the opposite top corner lies pure "intelligent design." Cultural evolution has traversed this design space over thousands of years—a blip compared to the millions of years of biological evolution—shifting from blind Darwinian adaptation to deliberate human design. As Dennett summarizes:

> “We are now living in the age of intelligent design of culture.”

- Pure Darwinian origin: Bottom-up processes characterized by zero comprehension and undirected, random search. - The cultural transition: A rapid de-Darwinizing process taking place over millennia rather than evolutionary eons. - Pablo Picasso as an archetype: Picasso claimed, *“Je ne cherche pas, je trouve”* (“I do not seek, I find”), presenting himself as an intelligent designer who bypasses trial and error to hit the design peak instantly. Dennett brands this claim “balderdash,” noting that while Picasso drew hundreds of preliminary sketches, his true marketing genius was signing and selling the preparatory trials alongside the final artwork.

---

[41:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZX6awZq5Z0&t=2506s) Cultural Artifacts and Non-Shannon Information

Contrasting human cultural artifacts highlights the shift from mindless Darwinian adaptation to explicit design. Matt Ridley's comparison between an Acheulean hand ax and a modern computer mouse illustrates the two poles: Douglas Engelbart intentionally invented the mouse, whereas no individual invented the Acheulean hand ax. Hand axes persisted with virtually unchanged morphology across nearly a million years. One compelling theory, championed by Mark Cohen, interprets hand axes as human equivalents of the peacock's tail—costly signals of fitness demonstrating that the maker had surplus energy to fashion stone tools, supported by archaeological caches where dozens of pristine, lovingly crafted hand axes were buried together without ever being used.

```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: Spectrum of Cultural Artifacts accDescr: The contrast between the uninvented Acheulean hand axe and the intentionally engineered computer mouse.

subgraph Ax["Acheulean Hand Ax"] direction TB A1["Mindless Replication"] A2["Million-Year Stagnation"] A3["Costly Signaling Device"] end

subgraph Mouse["Computer Mouse"] direction TB B1["Top-Down Invention"] B2["Douglas Engelbart"] B3["Rapid Deliberate Iteration"] end

Ax -->|"Shift toward Comprehension"| Mouse ```

Understanding this cultural explosion requires a serious appraisal of information. Dennett cites Norbert Wiener, the pioneer of cybernetics:

> “Information is information, not matter or energy. No materialism that does not admit this can survive at the present day.”

Human culture consists of informational entities: habits, words, poems, songs, games, Sudoku, surveying, long division, Bayesian statistics, polymerase chain reaction (PCR), and software. Crucially, among these, only software is composed of bits. Shannon information measured in bits is a modern refinement, but biological and behavioral information transfer—such as a chimpanzee learning to crack nuts by watching its mother—occurs without relying on Shannon channels. While whales possess small repertoires of culture and chimpanzees exhibit roughly a dozen culturally learned habits outside the genome, only human beings achieve an explosive, combinatorial culture.

---

[45:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZX6awZq5Z0&t=2753s) The Domestication and Evolution of Words and Memes

The evolutionary arc of human language mirrors biological domestication. Words first arose as "synanthropic" entities—analogous to undomesticated biological species that thrive in the shelter of humans without ownership, such as mice, rats, bedbugs, pigeons, body lice, barn swallows, and chimney swifts. Early hominins were infested with vocal habits that hopped from mouth to ear without conscious human intent or comprehension. Over time, humans began stewarding these replicators, progressing through distinct tiers of linguistic control:

```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: The Spectrum of Cultural Replicators accDescr: The historical escalation of linguistic and cultural units from feral memes to engineered technical terms.

L1["Synanthropic Words<br>(Feral, unmanaged habits)"] L2["Domesticated Words<br>(Reproduction controlled by users)"] L3["Coined Words<br>(Engineered terms like Dawkins's 'meme')"] L4["Technical Terms & Internet Memes<br>(Top-down, virally optimized designs)"]

L1 --> L2 L2 --> L3 L3 --> L4 ```

- **Synanthropic words:** Feral replicators spreading without conscious cultivation or explicit understanding from the speakers. - **Domesticated words:** Lexical units whose replication and usage become regulated by the speakers for specific societal purposes. - **Coined words:** Intentionally constructed terms resembling genetically modified organisms; fewer than one word in 10,000 is deliberately coined, with Richard Dawkins's *meme* serving as a prime example. - **Technical terms and Internet memes:** High-level creations optimized by human competitors to maximize viral transmission across communication platforms.

While critics contend that deliberately crafted "internet memes" undermine Richard Dawkins's original formulation of memes as mindless Darwinian replicators, Dennett disputes that this represents a fatal contradiction. He points out that the term *atom* originally signified an indivisible particle; discovering subatomic parts made "splittable atom" a literal contradiction, yet the concept was productively retained and expanded. In the same manner, cultural evolution began as a blind, unguided Darwinian process of memetic transmission and has gradually elevated itself into top-down, intelligent design. When examining these evolving relationships, evolutionary thinkers must consistently return to the foundational legal question: *Cui bono?*—who benefits? Biological symbioses fall into three distinct survival categories, beginning with mutualists that actively enhance host fitness.

[051:04] Memetics and the Decoupling of Human Fitness

Daniel Dennett introduces the biological classification of symbiotic relationships—mutualists, commensals, and parasites—noting that only parasites actively reduce their host's biological fitness. In the human body alone, there are trillions of mutualist symbionts in the gut flora essential for survival, alongside trillions of harmless commensal viruses. Dennett argues that the exact same taxonomy applies directly to cultural elements, or memes. The fundamental insight of memetics is that cultural transmission operates on its own evolutionary terms: “Meme evolution creates adaptations that enhance the fitness of memes independently of whether it enhances our fitness.”

```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: Symbiotic Relationships of Memes and Biological Organisms accDescr: A breakdown of how biological symbionts and cultural memes map into mutualists, commensals, and parasites, affecting host fitness differently. subgraph Symbiosis["Types of Symbionts & Memes"] M["Mutualists<br>(Enhance host fitness)"] C["Commensals<br>(Neutral impact)"] P["Parasites<br>(Fitness-reducing)"] end M --> BF["Biological: Gut Flora<br>Cultural: Beneficial knowledge"] C --> CF["Biological: Harmless viruses<br>Cultural: Neutral folk habits"] P --> DF["Biological: Pathogens<br>Cultural: Scams, destructive ideas"] ```

To demonstrate how cultural fitness diverges from Darwinian fitness, Dennett asks the audience a direct question: “How many of you think that having more grandchildren than anybody else is the most important thing in life?” When no one raises a hand, Dennett underscores the stark contrast between humans and the rest of the biosphere: “In other words, unlike every other species on the planet, you have things that you think are more important; that's because your head is full of memes.” Without this cultural software occupying human cognitive architecture, all human energies would be channelled strictly into producing biological offspring.

- Trillions of mutualist bacteria populate the human gut, without which life would be impossible. - Trillions of viruses live within the body as benign commensals doing no measurable harm. - Unlike non-human organisms driven solely by reproductive output, human goals are redirected by acquired memes.

[052:28] Digitization: From Written Text to Phonemes and DNA

Turning to the structural mechanisms that make high-fidelity meme transmission possible, Dennett displays a visual illusion where identical shapes are perceived as either an "H" or an "A" depending on context. The human visual system automatically and unconsciously corrects these ambiguous physical stimuli to match the cultural norm. This clean correction is an instance of digitization, enabled by the learned system of written language. Dennett demonstrates that the exact same phenomenon underpins spoken speech by conducting an experiment with the audience, asking them to repeat unfamiliar phrases aloud.

```mermaid flowchart LR accTitle: The Digitization Process in Cognitive Processing accDescr: Flowchart illustrating how physical acoustic or visual signals pass through virtual machines to become standardized discrete units. A["Raw Acoustic / Visual Signal"] --> B{"Internal Virtual Machine<br>(e.g., EVM for English)"} B -->|"Recognized Norm"| C["Discrete Digital Unit<br>(Phoneme / Letter)"] B -->|"Unmapped Pattern"| D["Acoustic Noise / Imitation Failure"] ```

Dennett asks the room to repeat the phrase "Mollify the epigastrium." The audience reproduces it in unison with remarkable precision, even when admitted that they have no idea what it actually means. However, when he prompts them to imitate a purely phonetic, non-linguistic vocalization containing an identical acoustic dynamic range and pitch variation, the audience stumbles and fails completely. Dennett explains that listeners succeeded in the first case because their brains ran an internal system that standardized the input: “You didn't have the EVM, the English virtual machine in your brain, which automatically corrected to the norm by identifying the phoneme; that is digitization.”

- Phonemes act as evolutionary digitization devices, functioning identically to the 4-character digital alphabet ($A$, $C$, $G$, $T$) in DNA. - Digitization allows both biological and linguistic systems to achieve high-fidelity transmission despite physical noise. - In physical acoustics, phonemes possess no objective physical boundaries; Dennett describes them as benign perceptual illusions manufactured by cognitive machinery.

[054:50] Cultural Evolution: Polynesian Canoes, High Culture, and Exploitation

Tracing the spectrum of cultural evolution, Dennett references Robert Boyd and Peter Richerson's book *Not by Genes Alone*, which analyzes how cultural systems emerge from minimally comprehending vectors acting on basic heuristics such as "copy the successful." This base-level competence gradually accumulates into myopic comprehension, spanning a continuum of semi-insightful tinkering. Dennett illustrates this through the evolution of watercraft design, citing work by Deborah Rogers and Paul Ehrlich on Polynesian canoes and drawing on an insight originally formulated about Brittany fishing vessels:

> “Every boat is copied from another boat. Let's reason as follows in the manner of Darwin: it's clear that a very badly made boat will end up in the bottom after one or two voyages, thus never be copied. One could then say with complete rigor that it is the sea herself who fashions the boats, choosing those which function and destroying the others. If it comes back, copy it—that's natural selection.”

Under this algorithmic dynamic, an artisan does not require an understanding of naval architecture; preserving features of surviving boats while discarding wrecked ones inevitably drives structural improvements over generations.

Dennett contrasts this bottom-up evolutionary reality with the traditional "economic model" of culture, which views culture purely as prized assets generated by creative geniuses and passed down as an intentional legacy. Alongside revered artistic goods, culture also carries synanthropic elements—neutral or uncelebrated features that tag along and survive without being consciously prized. Further down the spectrum lie "foible exploiters": cultural competences engineered just well enough to work ("good enough for government work"), which inevitably harbor blind spots that become targets in parasitic arms races, including scams and financial pyramid schemes.

[058:04] The Dawn of Post-Intelligent Design

Dennett reflects that the modern era has historically been characterized as an age of intelligent design: cultural production evolved from blind tinkering into top-down, comprehending, and self-directed search methods, mirrored in biology through recombinant genetics and Craig Venter's synthetic genomics. However, human ingenuity has reached a turning point into what Dennett designates the age of "post-intelligent design." Instead of attempting to engineer hyper-complex systems purely top-down, human engineers are increasingly turning back to Leslie Orgel's Second Rule—"Evolution is cleverer than you are"—harnessing Darwinian selection to solve problems beyond human analytical limits.

```mermaid flowchart TD accTitle: The Three Epochs of Design accDescr: Evolution of design paradigms from blind biological selection to human deliberate engineering, and finally to post-intelligent evolutionary harnessing. subgraph S1["1. Darwinian Evolution"] B["Competence without Comprehension<br>(Blind variation & selection)"] end subgraph S2["2. Intelligent Design"] I["Top-Down Deliberate Engineering<br>(Human comprehension, foresight, synthetic genes)"] end subgraph S3["3. Post-Intelligent Design"] P["Harnessed Evolution<br>(Genetic algorithms, deep learning, directed evolution)"] end S1 --> S2 --> S3 ```

This shift is visible across computer science, deep learning, nanotechnology, and architecture. As an architectural illustration, Dennett points to the Ottawa House of Commons roof, designed by John Sullivan at MIT using evolutionary algorithms that generated, simulated, and culled thousands of variants across a multi-dimensional fitness landscape to optimize energy and material efficiency. Dennett concludes his lecture by celebrating Frances Arnold, winner of the 2013 Queen Elizabeth Prize for Engineering, who pioneers directed enzyme evolution. When early critics observed that nature had never created proteins with the specific competences she sought, Arnold countered: “That's because there's never been selection for that.” By applying artificial selection pressures in the laboratory, Arnold evolves functional catalysts for carbon fixation, biofuel synthesis, and cellulose breakdown that map previously unreachable regions of chemical space, proving that human engineering reaches its peak when it puts evolution back to work.

- John Sullivan (MIT) used evolutionary architecture to discover structural forms for the Ottawa House of Commons roof superior to what human architects could draft unaided. - Frances Arnold (Caltech bioengineer) won the 2013 Queen Elizabeth Prize for Engineering for evolving synthetic enzymes via directed evolutionary cycles in the laboratory. - As the lecture wraps up, the host opens the floor to the Q&A session by asking Dennett which foundational ideas disrupted what would have otherwise been a smooth evolution in his philosophical thought since his days at Oxford in 1964.

## Notable quotes > [02:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZX6awZq5Z0&t=163s) You can't do much carpentry with your bare hands, and you can't do much thinking with your bare brain. — Daniel Dennett

> [51:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZX6awZq5Z0&t=3064s) Meme evolution creates adaptations that enhance the fitness of memes independently of whether it enhances our fitness. — Daniel Dennett

> [27:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZX6awZq5Z0&t=1675s) Being alive is thus not a requirement for evolution by natural selection, because viruses aren't alive and they sure do evolve. — Daniel Dennett

> [31:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZX6awZq5Z0&t=1885s) One of the lessons of Darwinism is you want to be a Darwinian about Darwinism and recognize that it doesn't have an essence. — Daniel Dennett

> [38:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZX6awZq5Z0&t=2293s) We are now living in the age of intelligent design of culture. — Daniel Dennett

## Mentioned Daniel Dennett, Francis Crick, Leslie Orgel, Antoni Gaudí, Eugène Marais, The Soul of the White Ant, Freeman Dyson, John Maynard Smith, Eörs Szathmáry, The Major Transitions in Evolution, Leonard Eisenberg, Lynn Margulis, Paul MacCready, Richard Dawkins, The Selfish Gene, Charles Darwin, Robert Beverly MacKenzie, Alan Turing, Amotz Zahavi, Peter Godfrey-Smith, Darwinian Populations and Natural Selection, Pablo Picasso, Matt Ridley, Douglas Engelbart, Mark Cohen, Norbert Wiener, Claude Shannon, Robert Boyd, Peter Richerson, Not by Genes Alone, Deborah Rogers, Paul Ehrlich, Craig Venter, John Sullivan, Frances Arnold, Royal Institution

## Video description Daniel Dennett explores the first steps towards a unified theory of information, through common threads in the convergence of evolution, learning, and engineering. Subscribe for regular science talks: http://bit.ly/RiSubscRibe Watch the Q&A now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beKC_7rlTuw

Buy Daniel Dennett's book "Intuition Pumps and Other Tools for Thinking" - https://geni.us/pAyVW

The concept of information is fundamental to all areas of science, and ubiquitous in daily life in the Internet Age. However, it is still not well understood despite being recognised for more than 40 years. In this talk, Daniel Dennett explores steps towards a unified theory of information, through common threads in evolution, learning, and engineering.

This event was the first in a series on the theme of 'Convergence', exploring the links between neuroscience, philosophy and artificial intelligence. If you're in London, look out for more events later in the year: http://rigb.org/whats-on

We are grateful for the help of the Real Time Club in organising this event.

Daniel Dennett is known as one the most important philosophers of our time, with controversial and thought-provoking arguments about human consciousness, free will, and human evolution.

He is also a writer and cognitive scientist, using neuroscience, linguistics, artificial intelligence, computer science, and psychology to inform his philosophy, particularly his philosophies relating to evolutionary biology and cognitive science.

Subscribe for regular science videos: http://bit.ly/RiSubscRibe

The Ri is on Twitter: http://twitter.com/ri_science and Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/royalinstitution and Tumblr: http://ri-science.tumblr.com/ Our editorial policy: http://www.rigb.org/home/editorial-policy Subscribe for the latest science videos: http://bit.ly/RiNewsletter

Product links on this page may be affiliate links which means it won't cost you any extra but we may earn a small commission if you decide to purchase through the link. #IntelligentDesign, #EvolutionTheory, #DanielDennett, #InformationScience, #PhilosophyOfBiology

[Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZX6awZq5Z0)

中文简报

丹尼特:工程极限迫使人类重回达尔文式选择 自上而下的人类工程已触及分析极限,迫使设计者放弃深思熟虑的预先规划,利用自下而上的进化选择来解决超复杂难题。 丹尼特将生物自然选择自下而上、无意识的“研发”与人类智能设计有目的、自上而下的本质进行了对比。借助达尔文和图灵的“奇特倒置”,他阐明了在动物信号传递与人类神经架构中,强大的能力通常先于有意识的理解而存在。他认为,人类文化扮演了第二次内共生革命的角色,以信息迷因和语言等数字化认知工具侵入灵长类大脑。最后,丹尼特描绘了从盲目的达尔文适应到有意识的人类发明的转变过程,并最终指出一个“后智能设计”的新时代:人类工程师将利用进化算法和定向选择,去应对超出人类分析极限的挑战。 人类文明极大地改变了陆生脊椎动物的生物量,尽管人类基因在过去10万年间几乎没有变化,但该生物量占比已从1万年前农业萌芽时期的不足1%,飙升至如今估计的98%(主要由牲畜和宠物构成)。 (13:25) 丹尼尔·丹尼特将文化迷因构想为信息共生体,它们在大脑2000亿神经元的基质上安装虚拟机,实现了可与远古时期原核生物融合产生真核生物相提并论的第二次重大内共生转变。 (27:55) 人类工程正步入“后智能设计”时代,自上而下的深思熟虑式设计正让位于受控的达尔文算法、定向进化以及深度学习,以突破人类理解力的极限。 (58:04)

Source quotes

[2:43] Daniel Dennett: You can't do much carpentry with your bare hands, and you can't do much thinking with your bare brain. [51:04] Daniel Dennett: Meme evolution creates adaptations that enhance the fitness of memes independently of whether it enhances our fitness. [27:55] Daniel Dennett: Being alive is thus not a requirement for evolution by natural selection, because viruses aren't alive and they sure do evolve. [31:25] Daniel Dennett: One of the lessons of Darwinism is you want to be a Darwinian about Darwinism and recognize that it doesn't have an essence. [38:13] Daniel Dennett: We are now living in the age of intelligent design of culture.

Original transcript

[0:05] [Music] [0:12] [Music] [0:13] thank you John that's [0:15] [Music] [0:20] great what I'm going to talk about [0:22] tonight is R&D research and development [0:25] of two kinds research and development is [0:28] a design process exploiting information [0:32] in the environment to create maintain [0:34] and improve the design of [0:37] things and R&D always takes time and [0:40] energy and there are two main varieties [0:43] one is evolution by natural [0:45] selection and the other is human [0:47] intelligent design notice [0:53] lowercase there will not be a single [0:56] word Beyond this sentence about [0:58] uppercase intelligence design in this [1:01] talk [1:02] tonight the processes differ in two uh [1:06] in several fundamental ways first of all [1:08] evolution is purposeless it's [1:11] foresight it's extremely costly think of [1:14] the billions trillions of lives that are [1:18] wasted on bad trials and it's [1:23] slow intelligent design is purposeful [1:26] somewhat [1:28] foresighted governed by cost [1:30] considerations and usually relatively [1:33] fast but there's more differences than [1:35] that and I'm going to explore a few of [1:38] them Evolution may be slow and costly [1:40] but it's [1:42] brilliant the late Francis Crick once [1:45] had a joke about this what he called [1:48] orgel's second rule uh teasing his [1:51] colleague lesli orgal and that is [1:53] evolution is cleverer than you [1:55] are and anybody who's in evolutionary [1:58] biology knows that very often whether [2:00] you're working at the molecular level or [2:02] at the at the at the ecological level [2:04] you find some feature of some organism [2:07] that seems this is daff this is stupid [2:11] design and then later you can't come to [2:12] realize it's much much more clever than [2:14] you realized it's actually more clever [2:16] than you are so that's orgel's second [2:21] rule now intelligent design of the human [2:25] sort now exists we have lots of [2:28] intelligent designers around [2:31] and it's becoming ever more [2:33] intelligent with some some surprising [2:36] implications and that's what I'm going [2:37] to talk about [2:43] tonight on the left we [2:46] see a termite Castle an Australian [2:49] termite [2:50] Castle on the right we see G's famous [2:53] sagata Familia Church in [2:56] Barcelona they are remarkably similar in [2:59] shape and in construction even [3:04] inside and yet I propose they are built [3:09] and designed by profoundly different [3:12] processes the one on the left is built [3:16] by [3:18] termites who [3:19] are I hope I don't offend any termite [3:22] lovers here they're pretty [3:25] clueless they don't know what they're [3:27] doing they don't know why they're doing [3:29] it [3:30] there is no architect termite or boss [3:33] there's a queen termite but she's not [3:35] really the boss they're just mindlessly [3:38] cluelessly uncomprehendingly doing their [3:40] little thing and this amazing Castle [3:45] arises Gaudi on the other hand is almost [3:48] a comic caricature of the creative [3:52] genius the megal maniac Big Boss lording [3:56] it over everybody publishing manifestos [3:59] raising money with very grandiose [4:01] gestures and all the rest so you [4:03] couldn't have a better contrast between [4:06] GOI the topdown intelligent designer the [4:11] genius and the termites the clueless [4:15] bottomup [4:17] Builders so we have bottom up design [4:20] versus top down design and here's a [4:23] puzzle this is a real [4:26] puzzle a ter my Colony I looked this up [4:29] the other day might have as many as 70 [4:32] million clueless termites and Termite [4:35] colonies can do some very clever things [4:37] clever enough so that books have been [4:39] written that there's a book called The [4:41] Soul of the white ant which some of you [4:43] may have read which suggests that a [4:45] termite Colony has a soul well they do [4:48] they forage very intelligently they're [4:50] very efficient they're very they're very [4:52] clever as a as a colony in many ways but [4:55] of course you will have noticed they [4:56] don't write poetry or make spaceships or [4:58] things like that [5:00] 70 million clueless termites is not [5:02] enough to give [5:04] you a very great [5:07] intelligence a brain might be 200 [5:09] billion clueless neurons smaller but [5:12] even more [5:14] clueless and now here's the question how [5:17] do you get a gudy type mind out of a [5:20] termite Colony [5:22] brain if you think of your brain as a [5:25] termite [5:27] Colony several orders of magnitude [5:29] larger you wonder how can you get the [5:31] kind of top- down intelligence that GOI [5:35] exhibits out of a brain which is a very [5:39] large collection [5:41] of basically uncomprehending little [5:46] single cells [5:48] neurons now there's a short answer and [5:50] that's this a friend of mine once said [5:53] you can't do much carpentry with your [5:55] bare hands and you can't do much [5:56] thinking with your bare [5:58] brain think that's very much to the [6:01] point so if you don't use your bare [6:03] hands what do you use you use Thinking [6:05] Tools a termite colony is a bare brain [6:09] doesn't have any Thinking Tools Gaudi on [6:12] the other hand had a well equipped [6:14] mind equipped [6:17] by eons Millennia of [6:23] culture where'd he get his [6:26] tools well the wrong answer comes from [6:30] Freeman [6:32] Dyson lovely man great [6:34] scientist but he said this technology is [6:39] a gift of God after the gift of life it [6:43] is perhaps the greatest of God's gifts [6:45] it is the mother of civilizations of [6:47] arts and of Sciences I entirely approve [6:50] of his honoring of Technology but I [6:54] don't believe for a minute that he's got [6:56] the source right [6:59] so that's the wrong answer and here's [7:01] the long [7:02] answer cultural [7:05] Evolution cultural evolution in our [7:08] species and only in our species designed [7:11] Thinking Tools that now impose novel [7:13] structures on our [7:16] brains evolved virtual machines that [7:20] then run on the basic underlying wetwear [7:23] of our neurons and gal [7:26] cells and it's that long answer that I'm [7:29] not to try to articulate a little bit [7:33] more a wonderful Book You'll see as I go [7:35] along this is a sort of book report talk [7:38] I'm going to be mentioning a number of [7:39] books that I think very highly of one of [7:41] them is this book by John Maynard Smith [7:43] the late great one of my heroes John [7:45] Maynard Smith and Earth zachari from [7:49] Budapest the major transitions in [7:51] evolution published in '95 and in it [7:54] they describe how Evolution evolves how [7:58] over the three and a half billion years [8:01] of evolution there have been some [8:03] profound transitions which change it's [8:06] like shifting gears Evolution goes into [8:08] a higher gear that can then explore [8:10] design space more [8:12] fruitfully more efficiently here is [8:15] their list there's the eukaryotic [8:17] Revolution about which more a little bit [8:19] more in a moment sex you'll be happy to [8:21] know is one of the major transitions [8:24] multicellularity cell differentiation is [8:26] another and then language in human [8:28] culture [8:29] are the uh fourth and fifth and which [8:32] comes first is an open question which [8:34] I'm trying to close but it's not [8:37] easy [8:39] now I'm going to talk only about [8:41] eukaryotic Revolution and language and [8:43] human culture because I want to point to [8:45] a striking and surprising similarity [8:48] between these two major [8:50] transitions this is my favorite diagram [8:53] of the tree of life every living thing [8:56] that has ever lived is represented in [8:58] one way or another on this tree and [9:01] let's see I think probably this outer [9:03] edge here can you you can see the arrow [9:07] yeah that's the present so everything [9:09] that's alive today is along this Outer [9:12] Rim here the mammals you know here are [9:14] we way down here on say on this Branch [9:17] right here this is the origin of Life [9:19] three and a half billion years ago and [9:22] as you can see first there were the [9:24] bacteria or the archa of Len Eisenberg [9:27] whose tree of life this is [9:31] Hedges his bets about whether the archa [9:33] are as their name suggests the first but [9:36] they may be they may not be we don't [9:38] have to settle that but for about a [9:40] billion years what we had was just these [9:42] single celled [9:44] organisms the so-called [9:47] procaryotes and then something wonderful [9:50] happens and you can see it right there [9:52] it's where that great sudden turn [9:56] happens find my pointer again there it [10:00] is right about there we get the great [10:05] eukaryotic Revolution everything else [10:07] you see all the colored things those are [10:09] all UK [10:10] carots we're UK carots basically to a [10:14] first approximation every living thing [10:16] that's you can see with a naked eye is a [10:19] eukaryot multi-celled eukaryotic [10:22] organism so what is this great [10:25] Revolution it's this [10:29] on the left we see a simple Pro carot on [10:33] the right we see a complicated ukar you [10:36] as the as the suffix as a prefix [10:38] suggests means good or better they're [10:40] bigger they have more moving Parts [10:42] they're much fancier they're simply more [10:45] versatile they're bigger all right so [10:47] how do we get from the simple cells on [10:49] the left to the cell on the right by an [10:52] amazing thing that only had to happen [10:55] once one day after a billion years or so [10:59] of UK of procaryotes swimming not [11:02] swimming well drifting around in the [11:05] water to different procaryotes not [11:10] twins two different procariotas with [11:13] perhaps two billion years of independent [11:17] R&D to create their particular Powers [11:20] they bumped into each other it's no [11:22] doubt happened a [11:23] lot but on this occasion instead of [11:27] a e B engulfing B and using B for energy [11:32] in parts or [11:35] B taking a apart from the [11:39] inside they join [11:42] forces in an [11:44] endosymbiotic relationship they became a [11:47] new thing an AB and the ab thing was [11:52] fitter Than A or B by [11:56] themselves and so they proliferated and [11:58] they had a common fate and they began to [12:01] their genomes began to merge and that [12:03] was the birth of the uh UK carotic cell [12:08] and the great fossil trace of that as [12:11] everybody should [12:13] know is in the fact that eukaryotic [12:18] cells have two or actually more two [12:21] genomes there's your nuclear genome your [12:24] nuclear genome that's for instance your [12:26] human DNA and then there's your [12:27] mitochondrial DNA and the mitochondria [12:31] are The Descendants the direct [12:33] descendants of early procaryotes that [12:36] join forces with u with other [12:39] procaryotes to form the eukaryotic cells [12:41] you get all your mitochondrial DNA from [12:44] your mother uh none from your [12:47] father so this is uh a great moment this [12:52] coming together this chance Collision a [12:56] moment of endosymbiosis symbiosis living [12:59] together Endo because one's inside the [13:01] other and uh it was the late Lynn [13:05] margulis who first really drove that [13:08] point home she wasn't the one who [13:10] invented the idea or first thought of it [13:12] but she's the one who persisted in spite [13:15] of ridicule and and much dis [13:18] disagreement and disapproval and she [13:20] eventually won the case and it's in all [13:21] the textbooks now so uh we owe a lot to [13:25] Lynn for that uh uh wonderful campaign [13:29] she fought on behal half of [13:31] endosymbiosis so what we have here is a [13:33] great case of Technology transfer you've [13:36] got two [13:39] independent traditions of R&D they come [13:42] together and boom you get this sudden [13:44] explosion of competence that you didn't [13:46] have [13:48] before now I want to describe another [13:53] explosion the mccre [13:56] explosion this was 10 th years ago Paul [14:01] mccre the late Paul mccre was a a [14:04] Caltech engineer some of you probably [14:07] know of him he was the uh designer of [14:09] the gossamer Albatross the human powered [14:13] plane that flew across the English [14:15] Channel uh very much into green uh uh [14:19] environmental engineering and he [14:22] calculated that 10,000 years [14:25] ago that's just a twinkling ago in in [14:29] geological or biological time the human [14:32] population this is at the dawn of [14:35] Agriculture plus their livestock and [14:38] pets was less than 1% maybe a tenth of a [14:42] percent of the terrestrial vertebrate [14:45] biomass by weight that is to say of the [14:48] animals we're not including the insects [14:50] or the worms we're not including the [14:51] fish and the sea or any of the [14:53] unicellular organisms we're just [14:56] including animals basically a [14:58] terrestrial vertebrates [14:59] and 10,000 years [15:02] ago less than [15:04] 1% what do you suppose the percentage is [15:09] today rather more would anybody Hazard a [15:12] guess 10% [15:14] 10% anybody think it might be higher [15:16] than [15:20] 10 I heard 99 [15:23] no [15:26] 98 well where is it there it is 98% by [15:31] by his Maybe by now it's [15:33] 99 Paul mccre made this a few years ago [15:37] we and our most of that is cattle by the [15:40] way we have engulfed the planet in one [15:44] of the most remarkable transitions ever [15:48] and that's it's happened in the last [15:49] 10,000 years in a [15:52] twinkling faster than the Cambrian [15:54] explosion this is the fastest and most [15:57] dramatic change in life forms well maybe [16:01] maybe some of the great extinctions [16:03] would be would be viable uh candidates [16:06] for just as uh for similarly uh sudden [16:11] changes to the biosphere what is [16:14] responsible for well he has a wonderful [16:16] thing to say about it he says over [16:17] billions of years on a unique sphere [16:21] chance has painted a thin covering of [16:23] Life complex [16:25] improbable wonderful and fragile sudden [16:28] suddenly we humans have grown in [16:30] population technology and intelligence [16:33] to a position of terrible power we now [16:35] wield the [16:38] paintbrush and our genes are just the [16:40] same as the genes of people 100 thousand [16:42] years AG very a few important a few [16:45] important differences but not many [16:47] genetic differences between us and uh [16:50] and our ancestors going back even a few [16:53] hundred thousand years but look at [16:55] what's changed technology and [16:58] intelligence is the [16:59] key just as Freeman Dyson [17:03] said so this was another great [17:05] technology [17:06] transfer and I'm going to put it in sort [17:09] of deliberately dramatic [17:12] terms the invasion of human brains by [17:16] symbiotic Thinking [17:19] Tools [17:21] memes Richard doin's memes from the [17:24] selfish Gene now I know that a lot of [17:27] people have a visceral dislike of the [17:30] idea of [17:31] memes and I have been fending [17:35] off second rate and Third Rate [17:38] objections to memes now [17:40] for 20 years and more and there are even [17:45] a few almost first trade objections [17:48] which I will be dealing with sarily in [17:51] my next book um I'm here to tell you [17:55] memes are [17:56] okay and they really do some wonderful [17:59] work I'm going to give you a sketch of [18:02] some of the work that they do and show [18:04] you uh why you should if you if you [18:06] think memes are a bad idea you might [18:08] want to change your [18:11] mind these Thinking Tools we don't [18:14] inherit them via our genes they're not [18:17] instincts we're not born with them we [18:19] don't have to design them ourselves [18:21] nobody has nobody in this room had to [18:23] design calculus or long division or [18:26] alphabetization or language or the wheel [18:30] we acquire these in our culture in our [18:34] education in our in growing up and [18:37] learning we don't have to design them [18:39] ourselves and here's the really [18:41] important Point nobody has to design [18:45] them any more than anybody has to design [18:49] the Nightingale or the palm [18:51] tree they are products of an R&D process [18:55] of cultural Evolution not genetic [18:58] Evolution but cultural Evolution which [19:02] is very much like evolution by natural [19:05] selection of genes but in this case [19:08] we're talking about the evolution of [19:11] memes now the mccre explosion was an [19:15] explosive amplification of of human [19:19] competence that's just [19:21] obvious it was competen largely without [19:25] comprehension in the early days it's [19:27] only recently very recently in many [19:30] regards only in the last 100 years or [19:32] less that we've really come to [19:33] understand what the heck happened and to [19:36] understand a lot of the tools that we're [19:38] using nevertheless it happened thanks to [19:41] those tools and this competence without [19:44] comprehension has evolved into [19:46] competence with [19:48] comprehension and this is what I like to [19:50] call the darwinian strange inversion [19:54] reined one of my favorite passages of [19:56] criticism of Darwin was was written by a [19:59] man named Robert Beverly McKenzie in [20:02] 1868 um I love this passage because the [20:05] passion of it the the the capital [20:07] letters are in the original and here's [20:10] what McKenzie had to say in the theory [20:13] with which we have to deal absolute [20:15] ignorance is the artificer so that we [20:18] may enunciate as the fundamental [20:19] principle of the whole system that in [20:21] order to make a perfectly beautiful [20:23] machine it is not requisite to know how [20:25] to make [20:26] it this proposition will be found on [20:29] careful examination to express in [20:31] condensed form the essential purport of [20:34] the theory and to express in a few words [20:37] all Mr Darwin's meaning who by a strange [20:41] inversion of reasoning seems to think [20:44] absolute ignorance fully qualified to [20:47] take the place of absolute wisdom in all [20:49] the achievements of creative [20:51] skill [20:53] exactly that's it that's just what [20:56] Darwin [20:57] showed and it's a strange inversion of [21:00] reasoning it's still strange to many [21:02] people they have a hard time getting [21:04] their head around this how could [21:05] absolute ignorance do all this brilliant [21:08] design [21:10] work so here's Darwin's strange [21:13] inversion of reasoning according to [21:15] McKenzie in order to make a perfect and [21:17] beautiful machine it's not requisite to [21:19] know how to make it now I'm going to [21:22] talk about touring and his strange [21:24] inversion you'll notice a [21:26] similarity in order to be a perfect and [21:29] beautiful Computing [21:31] machine it is not requisite to know what [21:33] arithmetic [21:37] is Darwin and touring before [21:41] touring computers were people [21:44] intelligent people they probably read [21:46] maths in University out of work they [21:49] work doing computation what are you I'm [21:50] a computer I work for such and such a [21:52] company doing computation what touring [21:55] realized was that wasn't necessary he [21:57] could boil all the comprehension out and [22:00] give you just basic minimalistic no no [22:04] comprehension at all and he could get [22:06] arithmetic and if you got arithmetic and [22:08] conditional branching it's Off to the [22:09] Races you can compute anything that's [22:11] what touring showed so what Darwin and [22:14] touring [22:15] showed and this is a strange inversion [22:17] is comp compet competence without [22:23] comprehension the process of natural [22:25] selection doesn't understand anything [22:28] and doesn't have [22:29] to similarly the CPU on your computer [22:34] doesn't have to understand [22:36] anything and yet they're both remarkably [22:40] competent processes that can build and [22:42] build and build and do more and more R&D [22:45] and this bottomup R&D is what we've seen [22:48] ever since in other words mind or [22:50] Consciousness or understanding is not [22:52] the cause the first cause it's an effect [22:55] and a very recent effect [22:58] now termites are not intelligent [23:01] designers beavers are not very [23:03] intelligent [23:06] designers we are the first intelligent [23:09] designers in the tree of life and [23:17] we're way over there that's about 6 [23:21] million years that little why that [23:22] little fork and so intelligent design [23:25] starts in one species about there [23:29] and that's the first intelligent [23:31] design since life started on the [23:36] planet a term of mine which I wish I [23:40] could recoin and do otherwise because a [23:42] lot of people don't like this term it [23:43] gives them the Willies or something heie [23:46] jibbies is free floating [23:49] rationals what's a free floating [23:50] rationale it's a reason why something is [23:53] the way it is but it's nobody's [23:55] reason trees do things for reasons as [23:58] any botanist can explain to you Bungie [24:01] do things for reasons the biotic world [24:04] is saturated with Reasons from the [24:06] molecular scale on up and we do things [24:09] for reasons we shiver we vomit we blink [24:13] they're not our reasons they are the [24:15] reasons why we do them we don't have to [24:16] know [24:17] them we do not have to comprehend these [24:20] reasons for these to be the reasons that [24:21] we're acting as we do and we even also [24:25] choose and decide and act for reason [24:28] that we don't need to [24:31] appreciate I'm going to give you an [24:33] animal example and suggest that although [24:35] it looks at first strikingly unlike what [24:37] we human beings do it's not that [24:39] different [24:41] starting um you've probably seen David [24:43] atenor film or some such nature [24:46] documentary where you see these [24:48] Preposterous wild High leaps that the [24:51] gazel do and they're being chased by say [24:53] lions in [24:55] Africa it's called starting [24:58] why do they do it it looks risky it [25:00] looks dangerous it looks show offy [25:02] what's going [25:03] on well we now have a very good idea [25:06] what the reason is why they do why they [25:09] do it this is the free floating [25:11] rationale of this particular [25:14] Behavior it's sending a signal don't [25:16] bother chasing me I can make these [25:18] energetically expensive leaps and still [25:21] outrun you go after my cousin who [25:25] can't it's a vivid case of what's known [25:28] know as costly signaling [25:31] Theory and it has to be costly otherwise [25:34] it wouldn't be credible if all the [25:35] animals could do it the lion would be [25:38] wise not to believe but the lion does [25:41] believe this communicative act and [25:43] doesn't chase the the gazel that can St [25:48] so it's serving a purpose it is [25:50] transferring information from the [25:53] gazelle to the lion they both [25:56] benefit it's a stable [25:58] system but here's the important thing [26:02] neither the gazelle nor the lion needs [26:03] to understand this this signal this [26:06] speech act as far as the gazelle is [26:09] concerned it doesn't know why it wants [26:11] to throw these ridiculous leaps it just [26:13] does it gets a great urge if it can to [26:16] throw those leaps and it does it's the [26:19] beneficiary of this clever strategy [26:22] without understanding it at all and [26:24] similarly the lion doesn't have to [26:26] figure out oh [26:28] the ones that can leap must be faster [26:31] and they're showing off to me no no [26:33] don't put soliloquies like that in the [26:36] in the lion's head if you want to put a [26:38] monologue in the lion's [26:40] head the lion is just [26:43] thinking oh I don't want to chase those [26:45] guys I don't know why but I they're just [26:47] not attractive somehow I'll go for the [26:49] ones that don't do those leaps they [26:52] don't have to understand the system [26:54] works [26:56] anyway hint [26:58] a lot more of human communication is [27:01] like [27:02] stotting than tradition would have it [27:05] and a lot of animal communication is [27:08] exactly like [27:10] starting this is competence without much [27:13] comprehension because you don't really [27:15] have to [27:17] comprehend and it's a good thing that we [27:19] can have examples of meaning and [27:21] communication without comprehension [27:23] because if we're going [27:26] Neuroscience we got a lot of signal [27:28] going on in the neurons between the eyes [27:30] and the lateral geniculate nucleus and [27:33] V1 and V2 and all of these different [27:35] areas of the brain all these signals are [27:38] being sent and the neurons don't have to [27:41] understand any of [27:42] it but there are reasons why they're [27:44] doing what they're doing and information [27:47] is being transmitted but it's just not [27:49] being comprehended by the receivers [27:52] doesn't have to [27:55] be so the problem that cultural [27:58] Evolution solves is how we get a gouty [28:00] mind out of a termite Colony brain how [28:03] do we get intelligent design with [28:04] representation of the reasons gouty's [28:06] type of intelligent design or touring's [28:10] type of intelligent design out of 200 [28:13] billion mindless [28:15] neurons it was the Second Great [28:18] endosymbiotic [28:20] Revolution we are it's human culture we [28:24] are Apes with infected [28:27] brains our brains from the day we're [28:30] born in fact even before we're born [28:34] already memes are entering our brains [28:37] through our [28:38] ears and through our eyes and taking up [28:41] resonance and building novel Virtual [28:45] machines thinking machines Thinking [28:47] Tools in our brains that change the [28:49] functional architecture of our [28:53] brains um viruses are not alive they [28:58] don't have a metabolism basically they [29:01] are just strings of nucleic acid with [29:04] attitude that is to say thanks to their [29:07] sequence they have a shape and thanks to [29:10] their shape they have a amazing [29:12] competence without any comprehension at [29:14] all to infiltrate into cells and trick [29:18] those cells into making copies of them [29:20] instead of of their own genetic [29:22] material that's how viruses [29:25] replicate and of course [29:28] evolution of viruses is classic [29:31] evolution by natural selection being [29:34] alive is thus not a requirement for [29:36] evolution by natural [29:38] selection because viruses aren't alive [29:41] and they sure do evolve the evolution of [29:44] HIV since it was first sequenced has [29:47] involved more change than the human [29:50] genome has changed since we parted [29:53] company from our common ancestor with [29:55] chimpanzee [29:58] well you might say but how about being a [30:00] material thing is that necessary is that [30:02] necessarily a requirement for evolution [30:04] maybe not being alive but certainly have [30:06] to be a material thing and the answer is [30:09] no you [30:11] don't viruses depend on living cells to [30:14] reproduce memes which are informational [30:17] things depend on living brains to [30:23] reproduce and they're not [30:25] made out of any anything except [30:31] information this is a hard point for [30:33] many people to accept and some people [30:36] are some very smart and clever [30:39] sophisticated people are not happy with [30:41] this line of mine but I'm going to [30:43] present it to you and try to defend it [30:46] first of all I want to point out this is [30:47] not dualism or if it is then the [30:50] hardware software distinction is dualism [30:53] but of course it's not in any bad sense [30:56] it's a perfectly respectable dualism how [30:58] many of you believe in the existence of [31:02] software yeah I mean what is Bill Gates [31:06] a fraud how did he make his money he [31:09] sold software was it valuable yes does [31:12] it exist of [31:14] course what is it made [31:16] of [31:18] bits that's what it's made [31:22] of here's another book I recommend [31:25] highly Peter Godfrey Smith philosopher [31:26] of biology was it Harvard now he's at um [31:29] NYU darwinian populations and natural [31:32] selection Oxford University press [31:35] 2009 in this book Peter introduces [31:38] something that he calls darwinian spaces [31:41] and I've come to think of this as one of [31:42] my favorite new Thinking Tools I didn't [31:44] put it in intuition pumps because I [31:46] would have had to do too much teaching [31:49] on the side about evolutionary biology [31:51] and I thought well I'll save that I'll [31:53] use these and introduce them in the next [31:55] book uh so let me see if I can [31:58] characterize this this is just a three [32:01] space of A Sort that you see in many [32:03] different scientific graphs um and the [32:06] thing is you can take any three [32:09] properties in which there's variation in [32:12] in In Living phenomena and put them on [32:14] the three axis X Y and Z Zed for you uh [32:19] uh and just consider all the other [32:21] dimensions fixed at some neutral vanilla [32:24] value or however you want we look at [32:26] three dimensions at a time and we can [32:27] pick and choose what dimensions we put [32:29] and then we can look at comparing [32:33] phenomena in this space to see how [32:36] darwinian they [32:38] are because one of the lessons of [32:40] Darwinism [32:41] is you want to be a darwinian about [32:44] Darwinism and recognize that it doesn't [32:47] have an Essence there isn't just one [32:50] sort of Darwinism there's all sorts of [32:52] sort of darwinian phenomena that are [32:56] almost darwinian rather wian it's rather [32:59] like the transition from therapsids to [33:01] mammals you got a lot of creatures that [33:04] are neither obviously mammals nor [33:06] obviously therapsids who are the [33:08] ancestors of mammals perfectly good [33:11] living creatures they just didn't fit [33:13] into those pigeon holes well they were [33:16] neither mammals nor thorpes or maybe [33:18] they were both don't even worry about it [33:20] you don't have to draw the line [33:22] similarly we should look for there to be [33:24] darwinian phenomena which are only sort [33:28] of [33:29] darwinian and you'll see in these [33:32] diagrams the Paradigm is up here at 111 [33:35] full doses of all three dimensions [33:39] that's the way he draws these diagrams [33:40] so we have the zero point and the [33:42] dimensions he put up here this is his [33:44] first one are sort of standard as as [33:48] everybody knows I hope you have to have [33:50] very high fidelity replication in the [33:53] genes to sustain Evolution if if the [33:56] replication makes [33:58] errors uh accumulate too fast then [34:01] Evolution stops that's known as the [34:02] error catastrophe but it can't be [34:04] perfect if if the Fidelity of of [34:08] replication of genetic material was [34:10] perfect then you'd have no mutations and [34:12] you an evolution would have come to a [34:14] stop so in the parade cases of evolution [34:17] you've got to have um [34:20] uh very you have to be very high on the [34:24] H scale the heredity Fidelity scale but [34:26] not all the way of perfection this is if [34:30] you want to have a naturalistic meaning [34:32] of original sin that should be [34:36] it the S Dimension dependency of [34:39] realized Fitness differences on [34:41] intrinsic [34:43] properties is best understood as a [34:45] contrast let's look at something that is [34:47] selected for a non-intrinsic [34:50] property right now in this room if we [34:52] held a like a tennis tournament an [34:55] elimination tournament a coin flipping [34:57] tournament somebody'd win the tournament [34:59] but it would not be as it were for an [35:01] intrinsic property they'd just be lucky [35:04] and that would mean there' be no reason [35:05] to think that on the very next coin flip [35:07] they'd be any more likely to win than [35:09] anybody else [35:12] right well there are many extrinsic [35:15] properties one of the most interesting [35:18] is the realtor's favorite location [35:20] location location and that's why Godfrey [35:24] Smith has put human cells up here [35:28] they are selected uh there's very high [35:30] fidelity of replication of the genetic [35:33] material in human cells basically all [35:35] the cells in your body have the same [35:37] genome there's some mutations that do [35:39] occur um and you have also uh a [35:42] smoothness of Fitness landscape I'll get [35:44] to that in just a moment but the main [35:46] thing is that for instance in in [35:48] embryonic development you have many more [35:50] neurons born then are going to [35:52] survive the ones that are in the right [35:54] place at the right time make the [35:56] connections they survive the other ones [35:57] get selected out and and uh their [36:00] materials are reused for the Next [36:02] Generation in in embryonic development [36:04] so it's a very darwinian process but it [36:07] isn't perfectly darwinian it isn't the [36:10] full-fledged parade case because you [36:12] don't have selection for cause you have [36:15] selection for an extrinsic property [36:17] location even though the the neurons [36:20] themselves may all be alike the one that [36:22] happens to be in just the right place is [36:24] the one that [36:25] survives I won't bother talking about [36:28] the other uh the other dimension there [36:30] it's smoothness of Fitness landscape if [36:32] you have a rug rugged uh uh Fitness [36:35] landscape then evolution is hard because [36:37] small steps in any direction May simply [36:40] throw you off a cliff instead of uh [36:42] slightly higher up the hill to the to [36:44] the to the summit of of Fitness space u [36:47] you if you understand what a fitness [36:50] landscape is so we'll move [36:52] on this is one of my applications of uh [36:57] pgs [36:58] Peter Godfrey Smith spaces and I want to [37:00] look at the origin of life just very [37:03] swiftly um before up in the upper right [37:07] hand corner we have the darwinian case [37:08] of bacteria they evolve by genuinely [37:12] darwinian means because they replicate [37:14] but before you have bacteria or whatever [37:17] the first living forms were you don't [37:19] have replication and a lot of people [37:22] Skeptics origin of Life Skeptics say [37:25] well there has to be a miracle no [37:27] because you have all these quasi [37:29] darwinian Pro processes which can make [37:32] the probability of getting to a [37:34] replicator much more likely you have [37:37] differential [37:38] persistence versus differential [37:41] reproduction some [37:43] processes [37:45] Prebiotic abiotic processes simply [37:48] Outlast others more stable and since [37:51] they're outlasting them they can [37:53] gather what are like mutations and hence [37:57] this can change that can change the [37:59] probability the odds of other things [38:01] happening when you have thousands of [38:04] asynchronous Cycles all working together [38:07] this keeps generating novelty generating [38:10] new combinations and in the fullness of [38:13] time you get back here and nobody knows [38:15] how to nobody knows how to fill this [38:18] space in time we start in an abiotic [38:22] world and some trajectory takes us up [38:25] there to the darwinian case [38:28] we don't know what it is but we sort of [38:29] know some of the dimensions that have to [38:31] be moved through whether a membrane [38:33] comes first or whether reproduction or [38:35] metabolism comes first you've got to [38:37] have all three by the time you get to [38:39] bacteria but the order in which they [38:41] come is very much up for grabs [38:44] now here we get to the one that [38:46] matters here's my main diagram of [38:50] cultural Evolution and you'll see that [38:55] I've put the termite Castle down here [38:57] here this is 0 0 0 but now I've inverted [39:00] Darwin's inversion and I put the pure [39:02] darwinian case down in this corner where [39:05] it's bottom up no comprehension and [39:09] where the search in the space is [39:11] essentially random it's not it's not [39:14] directed search at all there's no [39:15] information used it's it's just coin [39:17] flip search what you search so this is [39:20] our Pure darwinian case the termite [39:23] Castle culture and up here in this [39:26] corner is intelligent [39:29] design and what I'm suggesting is that [39:32] cultural Evolution over thousands of [39:35] years but not Millions only thousands of [39:38] years has moved from very [39:42] darwinian to very intelligent design we [39:44] are now living in the age of intelligent [39:46] design of culture so we want to look at [39:50] this D darwinizing of cultural [39:53] Evolution from the first beginnings of [39:56] for inst [39:59] language and that's why we see the [40:01] termite Castle down at the bottom and [40:03] why I've put up in the intelligent [40:05] design Corner you'll notice I've put [40:07] Picasso's name why did I put Picasso [40:11] there not because I think he's the [40:13] smartest most intelligent designer ever [40:16] but because he said he [40:24] wasu this is a brilliant lie [40:29] Baler Dash to use a polite [40:33] word he did a lot of [40:38] searching in order to [40:41] find I don't search I find notice what [40:45] he's saying is not for me random search [40:48] not for me grubby trial and error I just [40:50] leap to the highest peak in the design [40:53] space every time I comprehend perfectly [40:56] uh nothing hemsi about me I am at the [41:00] very Pinnacle I am an intelligent [41:01] designer well he this J appr is a [41:06] perfect motto for the intelligent [41:08] designer but as I say it's never [41:12] realized it certainly wasn't realized by [41:15] Picasso he was a very clever [41:18] dude I think a lot of his intelligence [41:20] was that although he did a lot of [41:22] searching made sometimes hundreds of [41:25] sketches his Brilliance was signing and [41:28] selling the sketches along with the [41:31] finished [41:34] product so Picasso couldn't meet that [41:37] but he can serve as emblematic of of [41:40] that extreme position on the [41:46] graph I want to thank Matt Ridley my [41:48] friend Matt Ridley for this wonderful [41:51] slide um two cultural artifacts on the [41:55] left you have an ash and hand a on the [41:58] right you have the mouse of course two [42:01] products of human [42:04] culture [42:05] nobody invented the Ashan hand ax nobody [42:11] Douglas engelbart invented the [42:14] mouse the hand ax was used with hardly [42:17] any changes at all for close to a [42:19] million [42:22] years there are different theories about [42:24] what it was exactly for my favorite is [42:27] that it was the human artificers version [42:30] of the peacock's [42:32] taale that basically you are saying this [42:35] is costly [42:37] signaling I am so good you say this to [42:41] the ladies that I can make all these [42:43] hand axes and still stay [42:46] alive either I'm very good at making [42:49] handaxes or I'm very good at stealing [42:51] handaxes I got a lot of you want to come [42:53] up and see my [42:55] handaxes this was this was uh actually [42:58] was Merck Cohen's idea that that the Ash [43:01] and hand ax was was a bit of costly [43:03] signaling and there's a one particularly [43:05] interesting data in its favor and that [43:07] is that troves of these have been found [43:10] you know dozens never used all together [43:13] in a in a pile A Little Treasure pile of [43:15] Ash and hand axes lovingly crafted never [43:18] used for [43:19] anything so maybe that was come up and [43:21] see my hand axes we don't know but in [43:24] any case that was an example of sort of [43:28] above the termite but [43:30] long way down low on the on the [43:34] scale Norbert weiner who is the youngest [43:38] and perhaps the most famous graduate of [43:39] my University tus University the founder [43:42] of cybernetics the coiner of the term [43:44] cybernetics uh once said information is [43:47] information not matter or energy no [43:50] materialism that does not admit this can [43:53] survive at the present day and I want to [43:54] underline that I think he's exactly [43:56] right as I say information is not matter [44:00] or energy it's information and we got to [44:02] take it seriously and I want to look at [44:04] some things made of [44:07] information [44:12] habits words poems songs jokes games [44:17] Sudoku crossword puzzles techniques dead [44:21] reckoning surveying long division basian [44:23] statistics [44:24] PCR and software [44:27] these are all things made of information [44:30] and I want to point out only the [44:32] software is made of bits I'm not talking [44:35] about bits when I'm talking about [44:36] information I'm talking about [44:37] information in a more fundamental [44:39] sense Shannon information measured in [44:42] bits is a recent and very important [44:45] refinement of a one concept of [44:47] information but it's not the concept I'm [44:49] talking about I'm talking about the [44:51] concept of information where when one [44:54] chimpanzee learns how to uh crack nuts [44:57] by watching this mother crack nuts [45:00] there's information passed from mother [45:03] to offspring and that is not in bits [45:06] that is that is an informational [45:08] transfer that is not accomplished in in [45:11] any Shannon channel that is worth [45:14] talking [45:16] about so habits I've just mentioned one [45:20] uh chimpanzees [45:22] learning I want I put this slide in [45:25] because I want to acknowledge that yes [45:27] we're not the only species with [45:30] culture arguably whales have two or [45:33] three or seven items of culture and [45:34] chimpan have maybe a dozen culturally [45:37] transmitted habits that are not in the [45:41] genome but nothing goes explosive [45:44] nothing goes Comm Comm minatori except [45:45] in our species we're the ones where [45:48] culture really takes off so now let's [45:51] look at [45:53] words in the [45:55] beginning we had what I want to call [45:57] synanthropic [45:59] words synanthropic species are species [46:02] that evolve by natural selection but are [46:05] not domesticated we don't own them but [46:07] they are sin anthropos they are with us [46:10] human beings so synanthropic species [46:13] would include mice and rats and pigeons [46:18] and bed [46:19] bugs and body lice they're s we don't [46:24] own them we don't domesticate them but [46:27] they are evolved to live and thrive in [46:29] our [46:31] company barn swallows chimney Swifts [46:35] Birds and the first words I argue were [46:39] synanthropic words the [46:42] people that were infested with these [46:44] didn't know what they were doing they [46:46] didn't know they were talking they [46:47] weren't even really paying attention to [46:50] what was happening but words were [46:51] beginning to take up residence in their [46:53] world and move from head to head via m [46:56] an ear and this was the birth of [46:59] language there's a long story to be told [47:02] about how that all works out I'm not [47:04] going into that tonight because I'm just [47:05] giving you the the bird's eye view um [47:09] then we move into a period where we have [47:10] domesticated [47:12] words these are not [47:15] just species of meme that thrive in [47:20] human company but we're beginning to pay [47:22] attention to controlling their [47:26] replication [47:27] which is usually the standard Mark of [47:29] domestication if you control the [47:31] reproduction of a species for your own [47:34] purposes then you've domesticated that [47:37] species so we have domesticated words [47:39] then we have coined [47:41] Words which is a little bit like [47:43] genetically [47:45] engineered organisms these are invented [47:48] by they have particular authors meme of [47:50] course is a good example of a coined [47:52] meme Dawkins is the coiner not one word [47:56] in 10,000 in our vocabulary is a coined [48:00] word most of the words have no authors [48:03] no creators at all they are products of [48:05] cultural [48:08] Evolution and then we get technical [48:11] terms which are takes it up even a notch [48:14] further and then we finally get to [48:17] internet [48:18] memes and when I put this up here I know [48:22] some of my students and others they [48:23] suddenly think aha now you're in the [48:26] trouble you're in the soup now denn it [48:29] why because they think this is just the [48:31] redu you OD absurdum of do Dawkins [48:34] concept of memes Dawkins introduced [48:36] memes to be evolvers to be things that [48:40] evolve by natural selection but internet [48:42] memes are the Creations the intelligent [48:45] the creations of presumably intelligent [48:47] designers there's competitions on the [48:49] internet who can design the meme that [48:52] goes viral best so this is would seem to [48:55] be the very [48:58] uh uh an intelligently designed meme [49:00] would seem to be a contradiction in [49:02] terms and I met for a while I thought so [49:05] too and I would I deplored the fact that [49:08] Dawkins wonderful word and concept was [49:11] being sullied was being was being [49:14] cheapened by being transformed in this [49:17] way into the word it is on on the [49:19] internet and then I suddenly realized no [49:25] no maybe this is a contradiction in [49:28] terms so [49:31] what after all a splitable atom is also [49:34] a contradiction in [49:35] terms the word atom initially meant [49:39] unsplittable thing a thing without Parts [49:43] a complete unit without any parts at all [49:46] now we have splitable atoms the very [49:48] idea of subatomic particles was a [49:50] contradiction in terms when it was first [49:52] introduced but we went along with we [49:54] kept the term and we understood that [49:58] it was in a certain sense misnamed where [49:59] we had we had a richer interpretation of [50:01] what Adams were same thing is true of [50:03] memes what we should realize is that the [50:06] original memes down in the bottom [50:09] layer when human cultural Evolution was [50:12] very darwinian they were pretty much [50:14] exactly what Dawkin said they were and [50:16] they've since become more and more [50:18] intelligently designed more and more [50:21] domesticated to where we now have memes [50:25] we'll still call them that even though [50:27] they're not products of darwinian [50:30] natural selection they're products of [50:32] intelligent design it reminds me of [50:34] course of an earlier contradiction and [50:36] that was Darwin's the very one that [50:38] McKenzie pointed out the very idea we've [50:41] reinert Darwin's strange [50:46] inversion KU Bono from the law who [50:49] benefits is a question that evolutionary [50:52] biologists should always ask themselves [50:55] and [50:57] we talk about three kinds of symbiant in [51:00] biology mutualists that do good for us [51:04] commensals and parasites only the [51:06] parasites are bad for our our our [51:08] fitness [51:09] reducing and as you probably know [51:13] there's actually trillions of symbient [51:17] in your body right now that you couldn't [51:20] that you couldn't live without they're [51:21] mutualists they're the floor and your [51:23] gut and so forth and there actually [51:25] trillions more of viruses which are not [51:28] doing you any harm all those Symbian [51:31] well the same is true of memes there are [51:34] mutualists commensals and [51:37] parasites and one of the key insights of [51:40] mimetics this is I think the key Insight [51:42] of memetics is that Meme Evolution [51:44] creates adaptations that enhance the [51:46] fitness of memes independently of [51:48] whether it enhances our [51:51] fitness human Fitness is not the end all [51:53] and be all that it is that species [51:57] fitnesses in other species how many of [51:59] you think that having more grandchildren [52:01] than anybody else is the most important [52:03] thing in [52:04] life I don't see any [52:07] hands in other words unlike every other [52:10] species on the planet you have things [52:12] that you think are more [52:14] important that's because your head is [52:16] full of [52:17] memes if it weren't you would be like [52:19] every other living thing on the planet [52:21] and all that you all of your energies [52:23] would be for having more offspring [52:28] what do you [52:29] see say [52:30] it but now look more closely and you'll [52:34] notice that the H and the a are exactly [52:37] the same shape you've corrected [52:39] unconsciously corrected those shapes in [52:42] your mind that's an example of simple [52:45] digitization you're correcting to the [52:48] norm and you're doing it because you [52:50] have a [52:51] system that of course is written [52:53] language I want to point out that the [52:55] same feature is in spoken language in [52:58] words spoken so we're going to have a [53:00] little [53:03] experiment so I want you to listen [53:06] carefully and repeat after [53:10] me mify the [53:15] epigastrium [53:17] again once [53:20] more perfect do you know what it means [53:24] no you don't care [53:29] second case again listen carefully [53:31] repeat after [53:37] me and and [53:40] again no now do it a third [53:43] time you can't do it there was just as [53:46] much energy the the rise and fall of the [53:49] graph was as striking in the third case [53:52] as in the first but you didn't have [53:56] the [53:57] evm the English virtual machine in your [54:01] brain which automatically corrected to [54:04] the norm by identifying the [54:07] phoning that is digitization it is [54:10] exactly the same trick that is used in [54:12] computers to give them High Fidelity [54:15] transmission it's exactly the same trip [54:17] that's used in [54:20] DNA phones are one of the great [54:22] Evolution one of Evolution's greatest [54:24] inventions right up there with DNA which [54:27] is a which is a for member alphabet a CG [54:29] and [54:30] T and phones are remarkably unreal if [54:34] you know about the physics of of [54:36] phonology they they they don't [54:37] correspond to any simple physical [54:39] properties they're like they're like [54:42] benign illusions that are that are [54:45] generated in your head by the Machinery [54:47] you have in your [54:48] brain uh Boyd and Richardson a wonderful [54:51] book another wonderful book uh not by [54:53] jeans alone is very good on the early [54:56] days the bottom level of my diagram of [54:59] cultural Evolution they concentrate on [55:02] how cultural Evolution starts with [55:04] minimally comprehending vectors they [55:07] have a very simple rule like copy the [55:09] successful and it generates interesting [55:11] results so they're very good on the [55:13] early days how to get cultural Evolution [55:15] up and running um against many uh [55:19] uh countervailing forces in evolution so [55:23] it's competence with minimal [55:24] comprehension leading to a little bit of [55:27] myopic [55:28] comprehension but now we want to move [55:30] beyond that in between we have every [55:32] degree and combination of semi- [55:34] insightful [55:36] tinkering one of my favorite examples is [55:38] the Polynesian canoe in a wonderful [55:41] article by Rogers and Erick about how [55:44] the Polynesian canoe evolved over time [55:48] they quote a Frenchman actually he was [55:50] writing not about Polynesian canoes I've [55:52] learned but about but about um uh [55:55] fishing uh Britany fishing [55:58] vessels every boat is copied from [56:00] another boat let's reason as follows in [56:03] the manner of Darin it's clear that a [56:05] very badly made boat will end up in the [56:07] bottom after one or two voyages thus [56:09] never be copied one could then say with [56:11] complete rigor that it is the sea [56:13] herself who fashion the boats choosing [56:16] those which function and destroying the [56:19] others if it comes back copy it that's [56:22] natural [56:23] selection doesn't require any particular [56:26] comprehension you don't have to be a [56:27] naval architect you follow that rule and [56:31] the boats are going to gradually get [56:32] better you may make some [56:34] mutations most of your mutations may [56:37] make worse boats doesn't matter any that [56:40] happen to make better boats that will be [56:42] copied and so [56:44] forth so we put the Polynesian canoes [56:47] sort of in the middle of the [56:49] diagram interesting to note that what [56:52] I'll call the economic model of culture [56:54] is up in the top layers our standard [56:57] traditional idea of human culture is [56:59] that it consists of treasures that are [57:01] made by the by the most creative genius [57:03] people we honor them we preserve them we [57:06] spend money protecting them we they're [57:08] the Legacy we pass on to the next [57:09] Generation this is sort of high culture [57:12] uh and it's an economic model these are [57:14] these are Goods but human culture has a [57:17] lot of other things in it which are not [57:19] necessarily Goods at all they're just [57:21] features they're not particularly prized [57:24] but they survive in mutate they travel [57:26] along anyway those are the uh uh [57:29] synanthropic cultural elements for [57:32] instance [57:33] okay in the middle We've Got What I Call [57:36] foible [57:38] exploiters competences with limited [57:40] comprehension provided by mechanisms [57:42] that are good enough for government work [57:44] as one [57:45] says that have characteristic foibles [57:47] and falling short that can then be [57:49] exploited in arms races and that's what [57:51] we see in the world of human [57:54] culture scams pyramid schemes are two [57:57] obvious examples it's a quasi darwinian [58:01] process so we're now in the age of [58:04] intelligent [58:05] design cultural Evolution has become [58:07] ever more top down ever more [58:09] comprehending and self-c [58:11] comprehending ever more refined in its [58:13] search methods so has genetic Evolution [58:17] thanks to gen genetically modified foods [58:20] and Craig Venter and genetic engineering [58:22] in general is very much a matter of [58:24] intelligent design of uh of [58:28] genes but I want to end by pointing to [58:30] the age that we're now entering the age [58:33] of post intelligent [58:35] design in many fields intelligent [58:37] designers are exploiting the truth of [58:39] orgo's second rule remember evolution is [58:42] cleverer than you are it turns out that [58:44] we can now harness Evolution to do a lot [58:46] of the design work for us genetic [58:49] algorithms were first area which that [58:52] happened you you probably use a computer [58:57] device which is optimized by genetic [59:01] algorithms uh deep learning the [59:05] current uh bandwagon and artificial [59:08] intelligence is a good example of this [59:10] evolutionary architecture I'm going to [59:11] show you an example and some [59:14] evolutionary approaches to [59:16] nanotechnology um the Ottawa House of [59:21] Commons has a roof this sort of sunroof [59:24] which was intelligently designed [59:26] by John Sullivan at MIT using [59:30] evolutionary architecture um this is [59:33] these are a few slides from one of his [59:35] presentations so we have a fitness [59:37] landscape there's one building and you [59:40] see it in the space and then he he tests [59:44] them in various ways for efficiency U [59:48] use of energy etc etc etc and there's [59:51] another one and there's another one and [59:53] out of this uh selection comes the best [59:56] design and it's better than he can do [59:59] without using Evolution I'm going to end [60:02] on this nice note Francis Arnold one of [60:05] one of my heroes one of my heroins won [60:08] the first Queen Elizabeth prize for [60:11] engineering in 2013 she's a Caltech [60:16] bioengineer and here's what she [60:19] does she evolves proteins that have [60:23] never existed before on the planet when [60:27] one of her supervisors when she was a [60:30] graduate student said but [60:33] Francis there's no protein in nature [60:37] that has the competences that you're [60:39] hoping to put into these proteins she [60:41] says that's because there's never been [60:43] selection for that so she's creating new [60:46] selection pressures in the lab and [60:49] evolving proteins by really quite [60:52] classic Evolution and as she says [60:54] consequently these enzymes may open up [60:56] whole new regions of chemical space that [60:59] could not be explored in previous [61:00] medical chemistry efforts we're [61:02] developing new tools for protein [61:04] engineering and using them to create new [61:06] and improved catalysts for carbon [61:07] fixation sugar release from renewable [61:09] polymers such as cellulose biosynthesis [61:12] of fuels and chemicals so the age of POS [61:16] intelligent design of evolutionary [61:19] design is now upon us thank you very [61:22] much for your attention [61:26] if you look back at the Daniel dennit of [61:28] one bont stre in 1964 and the evolution [61:31] of your thinking since then what are the [61:33] two or three ideas that have taken you [61:36] out of what would have been a smooth [61:38] evolution of thought